Scripture Readings at Mass - (cont'd from Will I go to Hell?)

[benedictus2]

I have decided to start this thread to answer a post in the “Will I go to Hell” which was closed.
Priscilla Ann:

Benedictus:

To be honest, the scripture readings at Mass, as you said, are taken from the Old Testament, Psalms, Epistles, and and the Gospel. So what you are getting is a short clip from each of those portions of scripture, read out of context. It is difficult to understand the true meaning of scripture when it is given in that way. It is like seeing short clips of a movie, apart from the rest of the movie. Again, you can’t understand the true meaning when portions are taken out of context.

A better way to understand the meaning of scripture is to read through a book of the Bible from beginning to end. So when former Catholics say they never learned the bible in the Catholic Church, this could be what they mean. That was certainly the case for me. I’ve learned far more of the bible in the 13 years since I left the Catholic Church than I did in the 38 years that I was a practicing (mass attending) Catholic.

Actually, the way Scripture is set out in the Mass is the way it is meant to be read.

All the four readings of the Mass are linked. The Fathers of the Church sees the NT as a revelation of the OT, and the OT as being hidden in the NT and this is how the readings are juxtaposed together.

If you go to daily mass, there is continuity in the readings unless seasons and feasts demand otherwise.

Reading the Bible one book at a time is not necessarily a better way to understand the Bible because each book has different sections. It is not necessary one continous narrative and this is most true about the Gospels. Reading books in isolation from the rest of the Bible is how a lot of the misinterpretations happen. One needs to be told which other parts of the Bible relate to a particular chapter or verse.

I have learnt much of the Bible by remaining Catholic. The reason is this, when we read the Bible we have the resources of 2000 years of Christianity to draw upon.

Take for example John 6. Most other denominations interpret that as symbolic but we say it is literal. And we have 2000 years of Christian tradition to do that.

Some think that learning the Bible is being able to quote chapter and verse. But this is actually a new custom which only started with the protestant rebellion.

There is no need to leave the Church to learn the Bible. So to say that somehow leaving the church has enhanced your learning of the word of God is absurd.

But yes, everyone is encouraged to augment their reading of the Bible with personal readings at home. But just a note: If you go to daily mass, in 3 years, you would have heard the entire Bible proclaimed.

And that is the beauty of Catholicism. Because in the first part of the Mass you have the Liturgy of Word - Scripture.

In the second part you have the Eucharist. The Word of God made flesh who now give us His very own Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity for our nourshment that we may have Eternal life. Not having this is the greatest poverty in protestant services

 

[cheeto1]

This is a great post.
I just wanted to agree with everything you said.
good work

 

[Ralph4454]

Leaving the church for that reason sounds like an excuse. Nobody ever said that by attending mass on sundays, you would hear the bible in its entirety. One has to be proactive in joining bible study, or just at home reading with the family.

 

[NotWorthy]

Benedictus2

I’ve got to point out that you seem to be minimalizing reading the entire bible. This should be encouraged most strongly. The Bible is God speaking to us and we shouldn’t reserve this only for the Mass. Any person who loves someone should try and find out as much about them as possible. We Catholics can do that at Mass and reading and studying the Bible!

Besides, you do not get the entire Bible in 3 years of daily Mass. Actually the number is closer to 75%, if I remember correctly.

 

[cheeto1]

Benedictus2

I’ve got to point out that you seem to be minimalizing reading the entire bible.

It is true that some parts are left out in the readings for the 3 years, but that just
leaves you a little something to read on your own. It makes it that much more
interesting. For example, back when the daily readings included the book of
James, our priest said he encourages us all to read the entire book of James.

Yet when all the readings and psalm gets tied together, that is truly an experience,
not just a story. The church does this for us, every day. In no way does it
minimalize reading the entire bible, it just says how amazing it is to have it all
put together for us. The one who left the church didn’t realize this, and it’s good
that he or she was told.

 

[benedictus2]

Benedictus2

I’ve got to point out that you seem to be minimalizing reading the entire bible. This should be encouraged most strongly. The Bible is God speaking to us and we shouldn’t reserve this only for the Mass. Any person who loves someone should try and find out as much about them as possible. We Catholics can do that at Mass and reading and studying the Bible!

Besides, you do not get the entire Bible in 3 years of daily Mass. Actually the number is closer to 75%, if I remember correctly.

I am not saying that we should not read the entire Bible. We should.
But the claim was that Cathollics don’t know the Word of God and I said it is their fault because we do get to know the Bible through Mass.

Another claim is getting bits and pieces at Mass is not the way to read it and I said well actually not quite because the readings at Mass are justapoxed in such a way that we see the hidden Christology in the Old as well. And this ever more apparent in the lenten and advent readings.

So many say that they learned more about the Bible by leaving the church which is totally rididuclous though probably factual since no one stopped them from picking up the book when they were Catholics. If I being Catholic do not know about the Word of God then it is through my own fault and my own fault alone.

Even if one were to limit oneself to the readings at Mass on Sundays so long as they keep this in their heart, pondering and meditating on them throughout the week, then they will advanced much in holiness through out their life. And that is the goal - union with God.

While it is good to read the entire Bible and truly recommended, one cannot read it to mine for information alone. It must be read meditatively. In the same way, at Mass, the reading must be contemplated and mulled over.

People have read the Bible cover to cover but have come out not anymore enlightened than when they started.

People have also read the Bible and because they have gone by their own feeble interpretation of it have come out with wrong ideas - which is probably why scriptural apologetics is one of the most visited forums in this site. My brother is disheartened with it because of the violence in the book of Kings.

What must be taught is How to Read the Bible and how to interpret it correctly. The entire Bible must always be read through the lense that is Christ and with a general idea of the whole economy of salvation.

As for the 3 year liturgical cycle, I read somewhere that you do get the entire Bible in the 3 year cycle. I will do a bit more research on that.

 

[NotWorthy]

Benedictus2,

I understand and appreciate your comments and I see the wisdom in how the Church works the Bible into the Liturgy (although sometimes I’m confounded by how they link some of the OT readings with the Gospel and Psalms!!!).

But my appreciation for the readings and Gospel during the Mass has been greatly enhanced by my studying of the Scriptures.

To sum it all up, it’s like peanut butter and chocolate… separately, they are two great foods, but together… :aok:

 

[NotWorthy]

And to further my point, my studying of the Scriptures has led to an altogether greater appreciation of the Mass!!

For example, take the Sanctus (“The Holy, Holy, Holy”). It’s common knowledge that the first part of this prayer, “Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God almighty, etc.” is taken from the prayers and praises of the angels in Isaiah and Revelation.

But the “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest” comes from the people of Jerusalem anxiously awaiting the coming of Jesus. Now, at what part of the Mass do we sing the Sanctus? Immediately before we witness the coming of our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist!!! The Church is Brilliant to put this prayer together like this in the place of the Mass that it is!!!

And furthermore, I recall the Pharisees demanding that Jesus quiet the crowds who are cheering for him during this scene. (BTW, Jesus Christ Superstar portrayed this scene most admirably…
“Tell the rabble to be quiet,
we anticipate a riot,
this common crowd,
is much too loud”.
… Sorry for the diversion).

Anyway, Jesus tells the Pharisees that, “if they keep silent, the stones will cry out!”
(Again, JCS does it well,
“why waste your breath moaning at the crowds.
Nothing can be done to stop the shouting.
If every tongue were still the noise would still continue.
The rocks and stones themselves would start to sing…
Hosanna, Hey Sanna”… well, you get the picture).

I find myself wanting to sing out like the crowds on the walls of Jerusalem at this point of the Mass. Someday, I probably will!!!

My point is, the Bible has greatly enhanced my understanding of the Liturgy!!!

 

[benedictus2]

And to further my point, my studying of the Scriptures has led to an altogether greater appreciation of the Mass!!

For example, take the Sanctus (“The Holy, Holy, Holy”). It’s common knowledge that the first part of this prayer, “Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God almighty, etc.” is taken from the prayers and praises of the angels in Isaiah and Revelation.

But the “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest” comes from the people of Jerusalem anxiously awaiting the coming of Jesus. Now, at what part of the Mass do we sing the Sanctus? Immediately before we witness the coming of our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist!!! The Church is Brilliant to put this prayer together like this in the place of the Mass that it is!!!

And furthermore, I recall the Pharisees demanding that Jesus quiet the crowds who are cheering for him during this scene. (BTW, Jesus Christ Superstar portrayed this scene most admirably…
“*Tell the rabble to be quiet, *
*we anticipate a riot, *
*this common crowd, *
is much too loud”.
… Sorry for the diversion).

Anyway, Jesus tells the Pharisees that, “if they keep silent, the stones will cry out!”
(Again, JCS does it well,
“why waste your breath moaning at the crowds.
Nothing can be done to stop the shouting.
If every tongue were still the noise would still continue.
The rocks and stones themselves would start to sing…
Hosanna, Hey Sanna”… well, you get the picture).

I find myself wanting to sing out like the crowds on the walls of Jerusalem at this point of the Mass. Someday, I probably will!!!

My point is, the Bible has greatly enhanced my understanding of the Liturgy!!!

I do understand your point (reminds me of when I was young and the reading was the healing of the centurion’s servant and I thought “so that’s where the “Lord I am not worthy to receive you” came from.”

The internet generation is so much more fortunate because now they have all the material available to them that references back to the Bible all the words at Mass line by line.

And so much scripture reading guides available.

Your desire to sing and shout at Mass reminds me of Scott Hahn’s reaction to his first mass.

 

[NotWorthy]

I do understand your point (reminds me of when I was young and the reading was the healing of the centurion’s servant and I thought “so that’s where the “Lord I am not worthy to receive you” came from.”

The internet generation is so much more fortunate because now they have all the material available to them that references back to the Bible all the words at Mass line by line.

And so much scripture reading guides available.

Your desire to sing and shout at Mass reminds me of Scott Hahn’s reaction to his first mass.

God Bless You and Good Night!

One last point. My first Bible Study was “Jesus Christ Superstar”, so I have had to “unlearn” a lot of things!!!