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sdben5
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Is there a scripture reference that says that non-Christians and non-believers can be saved?
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Harmony1988
Guest
Implicitly I guess.
God is described as being all powerful and etc in the Bible right? I don’t remember the verse, but shouldn’t be hard to find.
God’s salvation plan is himself in human form as Christ. However, God in his infinite power, may or may not save others, it is left upto his judgement, as Christ himself says ‘Judge not lest ye be judged yourselves’ - which implies that it’s not definite that others can’t be saved. If it was definite that non-believers can’t be saved, Jesus wouldn’t need to say such a thing.
All judgement of others is left upto God, why? Because only he decides where they go.
If you say that God won’t do it, considering the matter at hand is not a ‘sin’, then you are trying to predict his actions, which is contradicted by ‘his ways are not our ways’ - not sure if that’s scripture though, check it up. If you say he can’t, then that detracts from his omnipotency.
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Tabitha773
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Not exactly.
Here is the chapter most referred to.
This is the section most pertinent, however the question would have to be framed differently:
(from the NAB)
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Mintaka
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There’s the part when Jesus says that, when we’re judged when He comes again in glory: (Matthew 25: 34-40)
*Then the king will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.”
Then the righteous will answer him and say, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?”
And the king will say to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.”*
This is not the sort of thing one can presume upon, of course, because God judges by the heart and we can only see externals. But given this statement by Jesus, as well as his story about the Good Samaritan, I think he is saying that people who do such basic charities, out of love, are indeed very close to Love Himself.
*Then the king will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.”
Then the righteous will answer him and say, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?”
And the king will say to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.”*
This is not the sort of thing one can presume upon, of course, because God judges by the heart and we can only see externals. But given this statement by Jesus, as well as his story about the Good Samaritan, I think he is saying that people who do such basic charities, out of love, are indeed very close to Love Himself.
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Todd_Easton
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These verses come to mind…
And Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. (Acts 10:34-35)
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
And Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. (Acts 10:34-35)
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
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jcrichton
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Hi, sdben!
…the short of it? No!
There’s but one passage in Scriptures that speak of those who are not Yahweh God’s people having access to God through the wonders of nature (Romans 1:18-32); still, God requires, even from these, that we acknowledge and obey Him.
Maran atha!
Angel
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COPLAND_3
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I had always understood John 15:22 to hint that those who have not heard the Gospel would not be guilty, here is the quote
But I would not call this proof, but I understand there is a level of guilt that is overlooked due to ignorance of the Word.
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jcrichton
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Hi, Harmony!
Your argument sounds sincere and I agree with you that none of us can determine damnation nor Salvation for ourselves nor for anyone else… but the fact that Yahweh’s Salvific Plan is completely all encompassing does not mean that Salvation is a “right” or “guarantee” built into our human existence.
Jesus is very clear about who will be Saved:
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. (St. Matthew 7:21)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world: but that the world may be saved by him. 18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: Because the light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. 20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved. 21 But he that doth truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest: because they are done in God. (St. John 3:14-21)
As Jesus states, our damnation or Salvation is of our own choosing!
It is not that God does not want us all to be Saved (Ezekiel 18)–rather, it is humanity that rejects God and refuses Salvation:
22 For, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. 23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts and of creeping things. 24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 1:22-25)
The simplest way I know to explain it is this way:
I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19–DRV)
Clearly, if we chose Life we are Saved!
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
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Hi!
…the works for which some are praised at the end of times (the Judgment) are the works done, on Jesus’ behalf, to aide His disciples; and the even the “good Samaritan’s” deeds were completely divorced of any personal gain or bias–something that is very hard to do, even among the Believers.
We should not search for short-cuts when Salvation is an attainable quest!
Maran atha!
Angel
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MarcoPolo
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jcrichton
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Hi, COPLAND!
The context to which this particular passage belongs determines that Jesus is talking about the world in general and the Jews specifically. Had the Word not become Incarnate and come to His own then the Gentiles would not have experienced that Hope spoken in prophecy; Jesus clarifies that had He not come to them the Jews would have had some excuse to ignore God’s Salvific Plan.
Then, to the world in general He sent His disciples:
19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. (St. Matthew 28:19-20–DRV)
Would there truly be some that would be ignorant of Jesus at the Final Judgment?.. God only knows… but seeking Salvation on the merits of not accepting/believing in Jesus but still being saved–boy, that’s reaching!
Maran atha!
Angel
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sdben5
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Thanks Todd, you answered my question clearly and succinctly. That was a great answer!
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Harmony1988
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I never said salvation is a right or guarantee though. I said there is a possibility that non-believers can be saved
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Todd_Easton
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Another passage came to mind that seems to support the idea that some unbelievers who are invincible ignorant might be saved:
47And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more. (Luke 12:47-48)
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