Scripture says the World is flat?

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Montie_Claunch

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I have heard in several places that in the middle ages that the Church thought that the world was flat and that they somehow pulled this from scripture. I have yet to hear what the scriptures where that were interpreted this way. Has anyone heard of what theses scriptures are? Thanks and God bless.
 
I would first look at Genesis. From the description there, one could infer that the world was flat.
6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” (Gen 1:6-9 RSV )
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Most of the old testament implicitly and explicitly refers to what is called the “three-tiered universe”. The entire universe was considered to be composed of:

  1. *]The flat earth
    *]The sky which was like a bowl over the earth on which the stars, moon, and sun were affixed and on whose surface they moved
    *]Heaven, which was the space above the bowl where god lives.
    It was thus natural that when one went to heaven, they ascended up through the sky and throught the “bowl”. It was sometimes mentioned that the flat earth was supported on pillars (“pillars of the earth”) but it is unclear exactly what these rested on.
 
Perhaps the uneducated masses thought that the earth was flat, but the medeivals who knew enough to leave written records for historians to study also knew enough Ptoleme to know the correct shape and size of the earth.

This threw them into conflict with Christopher Columbus who believed that the circumference of the earth was 1/4th it’s actual distance.

My guess is that the “biblical proof” is an urban myth, I’d be interestred in seeing historical evidence to the contrary though.

There are alot of urban myths that are started when a contemporary person says that they can interpret scripture to say something stupid, and then other people say that the person who thought of it was either Innocent III, Thomas Aquinas, Pope Joan or every Catholic who ever lived.
 
patg: from my Old Testament studies, I think the ancient Hebrew idea was that the pillars of the Earth were attached to whole load of rock and stuff that was translated “The bowels of the Earth” hence our modern expression. I think Sheol (Abraham’s bosom) was meant to be down there too.

I had I diagram of ancient Israelite cosmology but I think I lost it. These ideas do not mean that the Old Testament asserts this cosmology as true. Israelite thought was influence also by Assyria, Babylon and then Hellenistic and Roman cultures. In the Israelite conception the world would have been flat. The Bible may have a couple of offhand references to common beliefs of what the world looked like, but these can be read as poetic license or relevence to the audience. You write what you know, so the Israelites wrote about the world as they concieved it.

To comment on this whole thread; Bible interpretation is a complex thing. You can’t pick out a verse and take it literally; you have to read it within the passage; within the author’s idiom, and within its historical setting. The Bible contains biography, history, poetry, narrative, prophecy, songs, ritual texts, aetiologies, wisdom sayings, laws, apocalypses, sermons, dialogue, legislation, geography, anthropology, political works and social commentary. Its very hard to understand! And that’s why often its good to read an interpretation alongside difficult passages.

Think of a newspaper article and a joke. If someone says “why did the chicken cross the road?” you wouldn’t ask where this was and what time, or the chicken’s age; that would be ridiculous! In the same way, we can’t read ancient texts translated from another language literally and expect them to make sense in 21st century English idiom; interpretation is needed. 🙂
 
Jamza said:
I had I diagram of ancient Israelite cosmology but I think I lost it. These ideas do not mean that the Old Testament asserts this cosmology as true. Israelite thought was influence also by Assyria, Babylon and then Hellenistic and Roman cultures. In the Israelite conception the world would have been flat. The Bible may have a couple of offhand references to common beliefs of what the world looked like, but these can be read as poetic license or relevence to the audience. You write what you know, so the Israelites wrote about the world as they concieved it.
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I agree - the old testament wasn’t teaching about the construction of the universe so any references to it should just be taken as part of the common assumptions of the time and not as part of the message of the text.
 
Jamza said:
I had I diagram of ancient Israelite cosmology but I think I lost it.
Click to expand...
If you have one, you can find it in the opening pages of Genesis in the St. Joseph’s Edition of the New American Bible.
 
Well there ya go! Didn’t know that. I have a Jerusalem Bible though I’m afriad, its more Anglicised. The New Jerusalem Bible is very good by the way, great notes. It even stands up to proper academic essays etc that you have to do in a theology degree.
 
Montie,

Actually, Ptolemy in his “Almagest” states (with evidence) that the earth is spherical and that its size with respect to the distances to the fixed stars is infinitesimal. Given that the Almagest was a basic astronomy textbook in Medieval Europe, the idea that the medieval Church thought the world was flat is a complete falsehood.

When Colombus had his debate over sailing west to reach the East Indies, the argument was over the size of the earth, not the shape. And it turns out that Colombus was mistaken and the people arguing against him were right. But that is a footnote of history.
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What utter nonsense! Scripture nowhere states that the world is flat, in fact, in the oldest book of the Bible Job himself calls the Earth a circle that is suspended on nothing!

Genesis does not state anything saying the Earth is flat. Here are articles refuting sceptics’ claims about the Bible being in error:
 
Hello Montie,

Was not the big Galileo conflict based on the revalation that the earth revolved around the sun rather than the biblical belief, due to the story of creation, of the time, that the earth was at the center of the physical universe?

The exact senario escapes me at the moment. But I think it is this conflict that you are thinking of.
 
The Isaiah text that uses the words “circle of the earth” in context is speaking of the dome above the land. A circle is NOT a sphere.

The Bible is not a Science textbook, nor does it claim to be such.

Yes, the OT reflects the level of science at the time. So, what. The OT is simply using language of appearance of the average person of their day. The Sun is described as moving accross the sky. Scripture speaks of “windows of heaven”, “four corners of the earth”, “under the earth” and so on. It is not a science book. It is stories about what God has done in people’s life.

Read Genesis One in the NRSV.
 
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