Scripture teaching not properly understood

[georgemiller]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Sounds like you expect instantaneous perfection. Growth in holiness, at least for most of us, is a lifelong process, gradual, painful, and messy. Even at death most of us probably aren’t fully purified. Not to mention that God sometimes allows defects to remain in us in order to purge us of worse ones, such as pride. We can have peace in our hearts, and still occasionally fall.

I think the principle that St. Paul was conveying to the Church at Philippi is this: To the degree that we trust in God’s Providence instead of worrying about our problems, we enjoy his peace. I don’t think it is not an all-or-nothing sort of thing; we can have more or less peace, and grow in our ability to have more of it. It is also possible to experience spiritual peace in our inmost being, and a sort of turmoil surrounding it at the same time; the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

It’s not about fussing about people’s emotions. It means don’t contrive and manipulate. Look to the provident God to be the mover and fixer in your and others’ needs.

(Same for Jesus’ similar words.)

 

[PJM]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

Sin diminishes the effectiveness of prayer.

While God has committed to answering ALL prayers He has three option in doing do. God can and does say:

Yes:thumbsup:

NO

Not now

God will never refuse a Soul that approaches Him
Humbly
Contritely
Persistently; BUT the above still apply. Amen

 

[PJM]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

The GIFTS [granted not earned] of the Holy Spirit are:

Knowledge
Council
Courage
Understanding
Piety
Awe of the Lord “Fear”]
& Wisdom

These seven GIFTS should be prayers for daily.

We We work on a “time schedule”; for God time is nonexistent. Everything for God is “present to Him” always.

Biblical understanding is NOT possible without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

***[Douay explanation]

[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise. End Quotes***

 

[Vico]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

The dogmatic teaching of the Church is that God’s grace given is sufficient, but without our cooperation it is not efficacious.

Not enough penance. Through penance we learn to deny ourselves, to avoid sinful temptations, venial sins, and mortal sins.

So, have you ever heard about how venial sins leads to mortal sin? From the Catechism:

1855 … Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. …

Matt 16 24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[guanophore]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

I think you are understanding properly. Perfect love casts out all fear/anxiety. Prayer serves to perfect us in the love of God, which drives out anxiety. It is a long process for many of us, though, because we have trust issues and have a hard time giving everything to God. The problem with the living sacrifice is that it keeps crawling off the altar!

It gets better with practice.

 

[georgemiller]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

In my question I made sure to point out that a person who persevers in prayer and supplication, I said nothing about expecting instantaneous perfection. Contriving and manipulating has nothing to do with my question. The purpose of prayer within the above reference is to have God guard our hearts and minds. Nothing was said or implied about sin diminishing the power of prayer, even though that is true. My question was why do so many who perseveres in prayer and supplication and thanksgiving to God still end up with their hearts and minds failing relative to the Will of God?

 

[HelenRose]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

Just an idea here: Anything worthwhile takes hard work and sacrifice. An artist or a musician can never sit back on his or her past accomplishments. They must continue to learn and grow in their talent. A musician may ask God to help them attain excellence in their goals but if they do not practice, do not strive and do not sacrifice they will never reach them. If we wish to be holy, we must strive against evil. We must sacrifice. We must work toward that end. A musician who does not practice, will cease being a musician.

 

[fred_conty]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

In my question I made sure to point out that a person who persevers in prayer and supplication, I said nothing about expecting instantaneous perfection. Contriving and manipulating has nothing to do with my question. The purpose of prayer within the above reference is to have God guard our hearts and minds. Nothing was said or implied about sin diminishing the power of prayer, even though that is true. My question was why do so many who perseveres in prayer and supplication and thanksgiving to God still end up with their hearts and minds failing relative to the Will of God?

My question was why do so many who perseveres in prayer and supplication and thanksgiving to God still end up with their hearts and minds failing relative to the Will of God?

In the passage before, he was talking about their happiness and wanting them to be happy.

In this passage, he prefaces it with “do not worry” which is what destroys peace. Then he goes on to say that if you need something then pray for it. In doing so the peace of Christ will guard you from worry, that is, it will remove the worry by putting it in the hands of Jesus. Then you will maintain your happiness.

It doesn’t sound like he is talking about “failures”.

 

[georgemiller]

Thank you Fred, your explanation helps a lot. Thank you so very much. God bless.

 

[fred_conty]

Thank you Fred, your explanation helps a lot. Thank you so very much. God bless.

You are so very welcome, and hope everything is ok with you.

 

[guanophore]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

My question was why do so many who perseveres in prayer and supplication and thanksgiving to God still end up with their hearts and minds failing relative to the Will of God?

What makes you think they do?

In the passage before, he was talking about their happiness and wanting them to be happy.

In this passage, he prefaces it with “do not worry” which is what destroys peace. Then he goes on to say that if you need something then pray for it. In doing so the peace of Christ will guard you from worry, that is, it will remove the worry by putting it in the hands of Jesus. Then you will maintain your happiness.

It doesn’t sound like he is talking about “failures”.

I agree. This passage is about trusting God, and turning our anxieties over to Him so we will be at peace. It does not mean we will always be able to know or follow the will of God.

Though as many have said, a fervent prayer life allows us to press our ears against HIs lips, so we are more likely to discern His will.

 

[Ontheway]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

In my question I made sure to point out that a person who persevers in prayer and supplication, I said nothing about expecting instantaneous perfection. Contriving and manipulating has nothing to do with my question. The purpose of prayer within the above reference is to have God guard our hearts and minds. Nothing was said or implied about sin diminishing the power of prayer, even though that is true. My question was why do so many who perseveres in prayer and supplication and thanksgiving to God still end up with their hearts and minds failing relative to the Will of God?

Because we are human, not perfect and prone to fail. What seems as failure to us now may be part of God’s plan for us. His will be done - but we don’t know the will of God.

Also, it is the individual person who prays to God, so the question about “so many” can not be answered. When we meet God, it will not be in a crowd of people. It will be you one on.one, or at least that’s what I imagine it to be.

 

[sirach2v4]

“Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 4:6-7

How is it that so many, both religious and others, still fall to grave sin even though they clearly by persevering prayer and supplication with thanksgiving to God somehow did not retain the peace of God that guards one’s heart and mind in Christ? If one follows the above Scriptural teaching why doesn’t God protect us from our flawed nature and sin? The above Scripture just seems like it is not fulfilling what it teaches when one seeks to truly and sincerely follow what it teaches. Please, what am I not understanding properly about the above Scripture teaching?

Human nature hasn’t changed and we have inherited the tendency towards committing sins. In the later chapters of Deuteronomy, when Moses is giving his farewell address, he urges the Israelites to follow the laws of the covenant, not looking to the right or to the left – which I presume includes the sense that we shouldn’t follow others lead. refer also to Psalm 1.

Baptism itself does not give us that “guarding” of our hearts and minds, unfortunately. As always, the Church advises a canonical approach to understanding scripture, not obsessing with one passage of the Bible, without ultimately considering the rest of scripture. For example, in Paul’s view, we’re running a race and he urges to not give up – because that’s exactly what we often want to do. He himself says someplace that sin sticks to him, and he does the things that he really doesn’t want to do. We need a savior.