Scripture verses JWs have problems with?

[PRmerger]

Anyone here have any discussions with Jehovah’s Witnesses? How did it go?

I’m looking for some “stumpers for JWs”–and I have indeed read the Catholic Answers tracts on this–but am looking for* more *from all of my friends here on the forum.

I have had 2 very nice JW ladies come to my door–finally! I’ve been wanting to chat with JWs for a LONG time. I pass their local Kingdom Hall every day and think, “What are they doing in there?? Why can’t anyone come and chat with me because I have so much to ask them!”

And in all my years, I’ve never had a chance to speak to a JW. Funny thing is, DH always seems to be the one to answer the door when they come knocking and will later tell me, quite satisfied, “Some JWs came to the door today but I got rid of them for you!” Whhhaaaat??

One would think, after knowing that I LOVE to be on the CAFs and LOVE to discuss my faith, that it would be obvious that I would LOVE to chat with them…

But it’s true that I never specifically said to DH: please don’t send the JWs away for I would enjoy talking with them.

Now he knows. And he did have them come back; hence my lovely conversation of late with 2 JWs.

But I digress…

So does anyone have any success stories? Bible verses you used that they cannot respond to?

I am well aware that nothing I say will convince them that their religion is false, but I did see the wavering eyes in the “newer” JW lady who came to my door when I pointed out a few questions, in response to the lead JW’s comments.

Thanks!

 

[eegardner]

I have not tried conversing with them, but have found that a lot of them will leave if you tell them you are Catholic. Maybe they have learned that they can not compete with that.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Similar results: they get nervous when I say am Catholic. I always thank them for going door-to-door, then add I belong to the Million Memberr Catholic [SIGN]Legion of Mary [/SIGN]Door-to-Door in every country in the world; they nervously leave.
In prior years, I thanked them for door-to-door, saying I’m Catholic, inviting them to say their piece. As soon as I caught an Obvious Mistake I knew Our Answer to, and Did tell them the Truth, respectfully, they quickly got nervous and left. I thanked them as they left.
Respect for others always is The Most Important point in exchanging Faith ideas, knowledgeably.

 

[PRmerger]

I have not tried conversing with them, but have found that a lot of them will leave if you tell them you are Catholic. Maybe they have learned that they can not compete with that.

Similar results: they get nervous when I say am Catholic. I always thank them for going door-to-door, then add I belong to the Million Memberr Catholic [SIGN]Legion of Mary [/SIGN]Door-to-Door in every country in the world; they nervously leave.
In prior years, I thanked them for door-to-door, saying I’m Catholic, inviting them to say their piece. As soon as I caught an Obvious Mistake I knew Our Answer to, and Did tell them the Truth, respectfully, they quickly got nervous and left. I thanked them as they left.
Respect for others always is The Most Important point in exchanging Faith ideas, knowledgeably.

Thanks for your responses.

But my impression was that JWs are very, very determined to get Catholics out of our “cult” and into the truth, so they actually target Catholics. Is this not the case?

I do have a statue of Mary in our front landscaping, so I think it’s obvious to all that we are Catholic.

 

[PRmerger]

Similar results: they get nervous when I say am Catholic. I always thank them for going door-to-door, then add I belong to the Million Memberr Catholic [SIGN]Legion of Mary [/SIGN]Door-to-Door in every country in the world; they nervously leave.
In prior years, I thanked them for door-to-door, saying I’m Catholic, inviting them to say their piece. As soon as I caught an Obvious Mistake I knew Our Answer to, and Did tell them the Truth, respectfully, they quickly got nervous and left. I thanked them as they left.
Respect for others always is The Most Important point in exchanging Faith ideas, knowledgeably.

Can you tell me what example of an Obvious Mistake they made, and your response? I’d like to keep it in mind for my own “arsenal” of apologetics against JWs.

 

[eegardner]

Thanks for your responses.

But my impression was that JWs are very, very determined to get Catholics out of our “cult” and into the truth, so they actually target Catholics. Is this not the case?

I do have a statue of Mary in our front landscaping, so I think it’s obvious to all that we are Catholic.

It could depend on the Catholic/JW ratio in the area and how good the Catholics are at apologetics. The first thing you see when my front door is opened is a 20" Crucifix on the wall.

 

[T_More]

PRmerger, I find that discussing the issue of authority is a real difficulty for JW’s. Allow me to give an example.

Quite recently, some extended family of mine who became aware that my wife and I attend a church (We never told them which one. It matters not to them) and have no intention of ever embracing JW teachings again. They were very upset and couldn’t not understand how we could follow any church that celebrates holidays, believes in the cross, supports war when necessary, etc., as the bible “clearly teaches against these things.” We asked them from were did the JW’s receive ther authority to interpret the bible? They said they didn’t need an authority, as the bible is self interpreting. This is exactly where I wanted them to go. We said if the bible was self interpreting, there were only be one church and we all would agree with what it says. There was no answer for this and they became frustrated from being stuck in a corner. We wanted the conversation to continue, but we think they saw the difficulty of their position and didn’t want to dialogue with us any further. Remember, a seed being planted is what you’re after. You’ll never convert these people in one converastion.

I find that establishing who has the authority has a tremondous impact on JW’s. Discussing Matthew chapters 16 and 18, 1 Timothy 3:15 and showing in Ephesians 3:20-21 how Christ and His Church would be with all generations, how it would be led into all truth in John 14 and 16 and that he would be with the Church untilthe end of time in Matthew 28 puts the onus on them to show how in the world could they be the true church since there history begins and ends with Chartles Taze Russell in the 19th century.

 

[kimmielittle]

PRmerger, I find that discussing the issue of authority is a real difficulty for JW’s. Allow me to give an example.

Quite recently, some extended family of mine who became aware that my wife and I attend a church (We never told them which one. It matters not to them) and have no intention of ever embracing JW teachings again. They were very upset and couldn’t not understand how we could follow any church that celebrates holidays, believes in the cross, supports war when necessary, etc., as the bible “clearly teaches against these things.” We asked them from were did the JW’s receive ther authority to interpret the bible? They said they didn’t need an authority, as the bible is self interpreting. This is exactly where I wanted them to go. We said if the bible was self interpreting, there were only be one church and we all would agree with what it says. There was no answer for this and they became frustrated from being stuck in a corner. We wanted the conversation to continue, but we think they saw the difficulty of their position and didn’t want to dialogue with us any further. Remember, a seed being planted is what you’re after. You’ll never convert these people in one converastion.

I find that establishing who has the authority has a tremondous impact on JW’s. Discussing Matthew chapters 16 and 18, 1 Timothy 3:15 and showing in Ephesians 3:20-21 how Christ and His Church would be with all generations, how it would be led into all truth in John 14 and 16 and that he would be with the Church untilthe end of time in Matthew 28 puts the onus on them to show how in the world could they be the true church since there history begins and ends with Chartles Taze Russell in the 19th century.

I find “the authority base”…works well with a number of door to door preaching religious, not just JW.

 

[corsair]

I’m not pestered by them anymore. when they used to come to the door I’d tell them that If I read their material then they would have to read “my” material; and then I’d hand them some good old John Birch Society books. That did the trick; haven’t seen them since.

 

[PRmerger]

Thanks, T More.

I am familiar enough with your posts to know that you have great interest in JWs, as you are an ex-JW; so when I got an email notification that said, “T More has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to” I wondered if you were going to say something like, “It’s no use chatting with them–they won’t listen to a word you say!”

I am heartened to see your response.

PRmerger, I find that discussing the issue of authority is a real difficulty for JW’s. Allow me to give an example.

Quite recently, some extended family of mine who became aware that my wife and I attend a church (We never told them which one. It matters not to them) and have no intention of ever embracing JW teachings again. They were very upset and couldn’t not understand how we could follow any church that celebrates holidays, believes in the cross, supports war when necessary, etc., as the bible “clearly teaches against these things.” We asked them from were did the JW’s receive ther authority to interpret the bible? They said they didn’t need an authority, as the bible is self interpreting. This is exactly where I wanted them to go.

YES! This is *exactly *where our conversation went! I asked why I should consider their interpretation of the Bible, vs say, the Methodists’ interp and they responded (of course): “Well, we go by what the Bible says. The Bible is what we should look to. The Bible interprets itself.”

And, naturally, I said, “Could you show me where the Bible says that?”

They couldn’t, of course, provide a verse.

And then I said, “Actually, the Bible says that it is not the foundation for truth.”

They were perplexed and asked where it says that…and I took them to 1 Tim 3:15.

That’s where I saw the flicker in the eyes of the second JW lady.

 

[eegardner]

That’s where I saw the flicker in the eyes of the second JW lady.

I love seeing that flicker, you walk away knowing that you have planted a seed of Truth.

 

[T_More]

I find “the authority base”…works well with a number of door to door preaching religious, not just JW.

I agree, this approach works with any Protestant denomination. The individual doctrines need to be understood by the person that is being conversed with to be sure, but it seems to me that it all boils down to the issue of authority. Once that is addressed, the teachings that non Catholics have a hard time with such as Mary, the Saints, Purgatory, the Real Presence, etc. become easier to understand. Just my opinion …

 

[T_More]

Thanks, T More.

I am familiar enough with your posts to know that you have great interest in JWs, as you are an ex-JW; so when I got an email notification that said, “T More has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to” I wondered if you were going to say something like, “It’s no use chatting with them–they won’t listen to a word you say!”

I am heartened to see your response.

YES! This is *exactly *where our conversation went! I asked why I should consider their interpretation of the Bible, vs say, the Methodists’ interp and they responded (of course): “Well, we go by what the Bible says. The Bible is what we should look to. The Bible interprets itself.”

And, naturally, I said, “Could you show me where the Bible says that?”

They couldn’t, of course, provide a verse.

And then I said, “Actually, the Bible says that it is not the foundation for truth.”

They were perplexed and asked where it says that…and I took them to 1 Tim 3:15.

That’s where I saw the flicker in the eyes of the second JW lady.

It can be frustrating and want to give up on them, but we all need to at least try. I think you handled that with them very well. Establishing who has the authority to interpret scripture, and then showing them scripture cannot be our sole authority and that scripture points to something else besides itself as being the authority can really turn on a light for some.

Holy Mary, Our Mother, pray for them.

 

[PRmerger]

It can be frustrating and want to give up on them, but we all need to at least try. I think you handled that with them very well. Establishing who has the authority to interpret scripture, and then showing them scripture cannot be our sole authority and that scripture points to something else besides itself as being the authority can really turn on a light for some.

Holy Mary, Our Mother, pray for them.

Do JWs come knocking on Sundays, too? Just wondering when I should expect them to return.

 

[T_More]

Do JWs come knocking on Sundays, too? Just wondering when I should expect them to return.

They will perform their door to door ministry on a smaller scale on Sundays, but typically Saturdays is when they are out in full force. Be prepared either way!

 

[jericho777]

I’ve been conversing with one person for four years or so. It is a long haul but he keeps coming back. We have spirited discussions.
Remember they are deeply committed to their faith and think they are doing God’s will. Scripture is the basis for their faith and they have a deep knowledge of their scripture. The Watchtower Society interprets scriptures and defines all doctrines for them. But they have a corrupted version of God’s Word via the Watch Tower Society.

If you want to have an impact with them then you need to have a superior knowledge of God’s Word to scripturally challenge their doctrines. They respect bible knowledge. You need to do your homework and be able to clearly and decisively put forth the reasons you believe and show them where they have misinterpreted Scripture. They are taught all their doctrines and have the reasons they believe them. They refer back to a little book they carry.

Read and reread scriptures to develop your own plan of action to defeat their attacks. You must be even more committed than they are to the truth of God’s word. Be kind and show them Christ’s love and the truth of the Bible. It’s taken me many years but he still keeps coming back. We have become friendly and I pray for him and his family regularly.

My primary strategy has been the evidence for Christ’s Deity in the scriptures even in their own sanitized version. I try to focus on essential biblical doctrines and not on celebrating holidays. We have covered many different topics since then.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve been conversing with one person for four years or so. It is a long haul but he keeps coming back. We have spirited discussions.
Remember they are deeply committed to their faith and think they are doing God’s will. Scripture is the basis for their faith and they have a deep knowledge of their scripture. The Watchtower Society interprets scriptures and defines all doctrines for them. But they have a corrupted version of God’s Word via the Watch Tower Society.

If you want to have an impact with them then you need to have a superior knowledge of God’s Word to scripturally challenge their doctrines. They respect bible knowledge. You need to do your homework and be able to clearly and decisively put forth the reasons you believe and show them where they have misinterpreted Scripture. They are taught all their doctrines and have the reasons they believe them. They refer back to a little book they carry.

Read and reread scriptures to develop your own plan of action to defeat their attacks. You must be even more committed than they are to the truth of God’s word. Be kind and show them Christ’s love and the truth of the Bible. It’s taken me many years but he still keeps coming back. We have become friendly and I pray for him and his family regularly.

My primary strategy has been the evidence for Christ’s Deity in the scriptures even in their own sanitized version. I try to focus on essential biblical doctrines and not on celebrating holidays. We have covered many different topics since then.

Great insights!

 

[T_More]

My primary strategy has been the evidence for Christ’s Deity in the scriptures even in their own sanitized version. I try to focus on essential biblical doctrines and not on celebrating holidays. We have covered many different topics since then.

Jericho, if I could, perhaps showing the persona of the Holy Spirit, instead of doing what they expect and challenging them on the divinity of Christ, might yield better results. Often when the JW’s are challenged on the Holy Trinity, it centers around establishing the identity of Christ. What gets forgotten is the 3rd person of the Holy Trinity, the Lord and Giver of Life, the Holy Spirit. Here are some things that, if you haven’t already, might really throw a curve ball their way:

Showing in John 14 and John 16 that the Holy Spirit is referred to as a He and Him over and over again by Christ. Since JW’s believe that the Holy Spirit is impersonal and God’s “active force” or power ( they never capitalize and say/spell holy spirit, without placing a “the” in front of it to de-personalize Him), these verses place the onus is on them to explain who He and Him are.

The book of Acts is chock full of verses demonstrating the Holy Spirit giving commands on it’s own (Acts 13:2 is a great one!), and it makes it very difficult for them to explain how an impersonal, active force can be doing these things. In addition, Acts chapter 5 shows Peter asking Annanias and Sapphira why they had lied to the Holy Spirit. How could this be if it’s an impersonal, active force. Perhaps here you ask them, “Can I lie to a force, such as electricity?”

Surprisingly, these verses are untainted in their New World Translation.

 

[twinkletwinkle]

It is my understanding that Catholics** do **believe in the Bible. I went to Catholic school. Listened to all those stories about Jesus feeding crowds and such.

Are you trying to prove to JW that Catholics don’t? Does this honor God? Is the objective just to be the winner rather that using the scriptures to prove God to be the victor? Romans 3:4

Just to be fair:

The scriptures weren’t called “Bible” when Jesus was alive it was called ‘God’s Word’.

Rather than saying that God’s word is not the foundation of the truth Jesus said that it IS the truth. “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” John 17:17 ;2 Tim. 3:16,17

From what I have read, Jesus did put God’s Word above tradition.(Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) I have not yet found a place where it says tradition comes first.

I asked about Jw Bible Interpretation. I was told that they compare scriptures with other scriptures in the Bible that deal with the same subject. I was given a few examples but this is one that I actually like.

What is the meaning of “sea,” @ Revelation 21:1? Told me to read Isaiah 57:20. (Ehh ok)

I do believe that the Bible has been given to us to give us hope. Rom. 15:4

When deciding whether or not to follow Saint Paul, these people compared his words to the scriptures to determine if he was preaching the truth. Acts 17:11

 

[PRmerger]

It is my understanding that Catholics** do **believe in the Bible. I went to Catholic school. Listened to all those stories about Jesus feeding crowds and such.

Yes, Catholics do believe in the Bible! It is a Catholic book, after all, written by Catholics, for Catholics and canonized, infallibly, by Catholic bishops in the 4th century and re-affirmed at later councils.

Are you trying to prove to JW that Catholics don’t?

Not at all. I am simply saying that the Bible says that the Church is the pillar and foundatin of truth–NOT the Bible.

Do you not agree?