Scripture verses JWs have problems with?

[Nicea325]

Outside any RC church, mass being celebrated or not, crime, war, sickness, despair go on. Do you see any worldwide, permanent change to that on earth?

Yeah and outside any JW Kingdom Hall all the above still happens,so I do not see the JW’s making it any better for any of us. And your point being…?

 

[noprem]

And I most certainly do not see the JW’s making the world better with their false heretical teachings and lies.

I notice you replied “And I most certainly do not …” I take that to mean a negative answer to my question, also. “Do you see any worldwide, permanent change to that on earth?”]

Our teachings are the same as those of King David: “But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.” Ps 37:11
And his teachings are good enough for us, if they’re good enough for Jesus- your God. “Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.” Mt 5:5
What do you think Jesus- your God- meant by “meek”? That seems not to be a popular mindset today. Will that change, do you think?

David’s son Solomon lived during an era of relative peace and prosperity. (“and he had peace on all sides round about him”) He even had an appropriate Psalm (72) written about him. But some of the things mentioned there didn’t happen in his day.
V.5,7: They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations … In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. The sun and moon still shine, yet Solomon is dead and many unrighteous roam the earth.
V.11: Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him. Not all kings and nations recognized Solomon as sovereign.
V.16: There shall be abundance of grain in the earth upon the top of the mountains; Even then not all the earth was without food shortages and famines. (Israel was well-fed, though, the archaeologists say.)
V. 18,20: Blessed be Jehovah God my God], the God of Israel, Who only doeth wondrous things: The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.

So what are we to think? The promises are all very nice, but it seems they’ve played out in history like modern campaign promises. Is Solomon the best we can hope for?
Or is there perhaps another to come- a greater than Solomon to be here? Of course that would mean we would be interpreting the Bible- the Psalm says specifically, Solomon, and there are no other Solomons in the Bible or among men of historical or present fame who fit the bill. Still, it would be nice to live under the conditions of Ps 72- and worldwide. What does your Church say about the matter?

 

[noprem]

Yeah and outside any JW Kingdom Hall all the above still happens,so I do not see the JW’s making it any better for any of us. And your point being…?

I’ve lived almost 70 years, and I don’t see any group of men “making it better” either. So I’ve given up on men and have turned to the one Person who has proved He can deliver the kind of world I want- Jehovah.
My direct personal experiences with the mainstream religions, and comparing them with the Bible’s teachings, has shown me the vast difference between them, and of the superiority of the Bible.

 

[Miriam1947]

I’ve lived almost 70 years, and I don’t see any group of men “making it better” either. So I’ve given up on men and have turned to the one Person who has proved He can deliver the kind of world I want- Jehovah.
My direct personal experiences with the mainstream religions, and comparing them with the Bible’s teachings, has shown me the vast difference between them, and of the superiority of the Bible.

Aren’t you just so very grateful that the Catholic Church preserved the OT and wrote the NT so you would have the wherewithal to tell us how utterly wrong we all are.

 

[PRmerger]

So I’ve given up on men and have turned to the one Person who has proved He can deliver the kind of world I want- Jehovah.

Well, this is quite consonant with Catholic teaching, noprem, by whatever name you want to call the One True God.

The “giving up on men”, as you indicate, means that you place your trust in the Lord, yes?

My direct personal experiences with the mainstream religions, and comparing them with the Bible’s teachings, has shown me the vast difference between them, and of the superiority of the Bible.

This is an example of begging the question. You’re saying “I can prove that the Bible is superior because the Bible is superior.”

You are assuming that which you are trying to prove.

How do you know the Bible is superior? Superior to what?

 

[PRmerger]

Outside any RC church, mass being celebrated or not, crime, war, sickness, despair go on. Do you see any worldwide, permanent change to that on earth?

You are saying “outside of heaven coming down to earth each and every day, at each and every hour, from the rising of the sun to its setting, from east to west” is there heaven on earth?

Do you know that at each and every hour of the day the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is being celebrated here on earth?

So your question makes no sense. It’s like saying, “outside of each and every moment of the day when heaven is on earth at the Mass, what* other* times is heaven here?”

 

[Nicea325]

I’ve lived almost 70 years, and I don’t see any group of men “making it better” either.

Which would include your JW sect-right? Unless JW’s are from another solar system cloned as men?

So I’ve given up on men and have turned to the one Person who has proved He can deliver the kind of world I want- Jehovah.

And what on earth makes you truly believe JW’s are the first one’s since the beginning of makind to figure it out? By the way,Jehovah is a bastardized term for Yahweh.

My direct personal experiences with the mainstream religions

Mainstream religions? I would not consider the JW cult as exactly underground. Their false teachings are well known around the world.

and comparing them with the Bible’s teachings

When and where did God state to compare and contrast world religions strictly from the Bible?

has shown me the vast difference between them, and of the superiority of the Bible.

So it is true? JW’s worship a book called the NWT? Well JW’s can keep on trucking placing their faith in the Superiority of their Bible (NWT) and leave the worshipping of our superior God to orthodox Christians.

 

[Big_Dummy]

And I agree with you!

But this is because you understand the Scriptures through Tradition.

Someone on a desert island, someone who’s a Muslim, someone who reads only the Bible–and nothing else–can come to a very different conclusion.

But, one who has t he Holy Spirit will not come to a different conclusion about whom Jesus is because the Spirit testifies about Jesus.

 

[Big_Dummy]

*Exactly!! * :clapping:

So when a JW says that someone living on a deserted island couldn’t extract the deity of Christ from the words of Scripture the response is, “This is a false criterion. We don’t use the Bible alone to come to an understanding of the divinity of Christ.”

In fact, if you do do this (ha ha! you just made me say “do do” ),and use the Bible alone–nothing else, you come up with all sorts of heresies and weird proclamations that are simply NOT the faith deposited, once for all, to the saints.

Someone on an island objectivitly reading a good translation, could in fact come to the truth of Jesus is God. They may miss this truth if they are reading an Arian bias translation like the NWT or one published by the Christadelphians.

 

[PRmerger]

But, one who has t he Holy Spirit will not come to a different conclusion about whom Jesus is because the Spirit testifies about Jesus.

Amen! And how does one receive the Holy Spirit?

 

[PRmerger]

Someone on an island objectivitly reading a good translation, could in fact come to the truth of Jesus is God.

This is an un-scientific, un-evidence-based, un-proven and therefore inutile argument.

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Re: BIRTHDAYS

The ANGELS sing “GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST”! when CHRIST JESUS is BORN
= THE FIRST “CHRIST-MASS” CAROLS!

IF THE ANGELS where commanded by GOD THE FATHER to SING of HIS ONLY - BEGOTTEN SON then,
WHY SHOULDN’T WE?

SOUNDS like CHRIST’S BIRTHDAY is kinda important or something, HUH?!*

SUPERSEDES the dangerous, rude & bad BEHAVIOR in OT birthday parties!

JW’S mark ANNIVERSARIES so WHY NOT BIRTHDAYS?

GOD CELEBRATES in HIS CREATION & that includes each HUMAN BEING!

The saying of ‘GOD don’t make no junk’ is not my favorite but has a POINT!

WE’RE MADE in the IMAGE & LIKENESS OF GOD & REDEEMED at the HIGHEST PRICE POSSIBLE

CATHOLICS CELEBRATE LIFE!

JOYOUS BIRTHDAYS are BIBLICAL after all!

 

[AntalKalnoky]

And I agree with you!

But this is because you understand the Scriptures through Tradition.

Someone on a desert island, someone who’s a Muslim, someone who reads only the Bible–and nothing else–can come to a very different conclusion.

Sola Sciptura, Bible Only ‘truth’ is nowhere in the Bible, and is Contrary to Bible Teaching. Only the Catholc Church Lives the Bible Fully, as it was intended by God. Only we have the 7 Sacraments initiated by Christ, and decribed in the Bible. The Bible was not written in English a few years ago. Only the Church knows the History odf Every Book (Described in the $9.00 USCCB New American Bible, wchich also has masive number of references, including Historicv, Cultures of Millenia ago: the Meaning of phrases Then.

                                                                                                                     We  also have  innumerable Records  of what  Early Church Fathers    Wrote,  thought   about  Bible  verses; I have  a  3 Page  print of Quotes  from  Many  Early Church  Fathers  on Peter  as the Leader,    first   'bishop of rome'   and all   Apostles, now Bishops. One of our Next  2  Gospels    studied  (Bible  expert Convert to   Catholic)  did the  Reasearch  and Printed  out their  statements.  The  Same type  Early  Church Fathers  teachings are  readily  available  Online:  CAF,  and  EWTN,  as well  as bound books.                                                                                                                          Everything  Catholic Church  is In the Bible; Nothing the  Church does or teaches    conflicts with The Bible.  Only the  Church  Lives the Bible Fully,  as God Intended.

• We know The Bible by the Tradition of Knowing/Living it Correctly, since our the Apostles and early Church Disciples wrote the New Testament.

 

[noprem]

Well, this is quite consonant with Catholic teaching, …
How do you know the Bible is superior? Superior to what?

John 13:34,35 is superior to the churches furnishing chaplains to their national armies to “encourage the faithful” to kill the “brethren” on the other side, who in their turn are “encouraged” to kill … and so on. As was done in the two biggest wars in history among “the nations of Christendom”. Which phrase sounds like something one might read in a Watchtower, but is in fact a quote I’ve seen often from mainstream writers. IOW they know more than you do about religions and wars. You might also research the Thirty Years War- its participants, its motivation, its rules of engagement.

 

[T_More]

John 13:34,35 is superior to the churches furnishing chaplains to their national armies to “encourage the faithful” to kill the “brethren” on the other side, who in their turn are “encouraged” to kill … and so on. As was done in the two biggest wars in history among “the nations of Christendom”. Which phrase sounds like something one might read in a Watchtower, but is in fact a quote I’ve seen often from mainstream writers. IOW they know more than you do about religions and wars. You might also research the Thirty Years War- its participants, its motivation, its rules of engagement.

Noprem, you just won’t answer my question, will you? You’re grasping at straw man arguments to try and hold your position.

Who was the Church founded by Jesus Christ that has endured for 2000 years?

BTW, why won’t you identify yourself as a JW in your profile description?

 

[PRmerger]

John 13:34,35 is superior to the churches furnishing chaplains to their national armies to “encourage the faithful” to kill the “brethren” on the other side, who in their turn are “encouraged” to kill … and so on.

John 13:34-35? Are you sure that’s the verse you want to quote?

If so, it says nothing at all about the Bible being superior to anything.

Secondly, you will note that you have done the very thing you criticize TMore of doing here: “you several times quote scripture partly, to mislead the unwary.” Do you not see the irony in making this accusation when you yourself “quote scripture partly”.

At any rate, here’s the verse you quoted (partly) above:
[BIBLEDRB]John 13:34-35[/BIBLEDRB]

The word “superior” is found in nary a sentence.

 

[PRmerger]

Misusing scripture that way is typical of JW “refuters” … and apostates.

How about if we use the Watchtower, your own publication, to bring up questions regarding JW traditions?

For example, does not the Watchtower state: (secondary source here)
"In this regard, the book God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached stated: “As to just how the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ class existed and served down through the centuries after the death of the apostles of the Master Jesus Christ, we do not have a distinct historical picture. Apparently one generation of the ‘slave’ class fed the next succeeding generation thereof. (2 Timothy 2:2)” Watchtower 1995 May 15 p.16

Could you please cite an example of a JW who existed before the 19th century? I’d like to see some documentation of any JW literature from the 16th century, to indicate that this “faithful and discreet slave” existed from the time of the Apostles to the current age of JWs.

 

[noprem]

John 13:34-35? Are you sure that’s the verse you want to quote? If so, it says nothing at all about the Bible being superior to anything. Secondly, you will note that you have done the very thing you criticize TMore of doing here: “you several times quote scripture partly, to mislead the unwary.” Do you not see the irony in making this accusation when you yourself “quote scripture partly”. At any rate, here’s the verse you quoted (partly) above:
[BIBLEDRB]John 13:34-35[/BIBLEDRB] The word “superior” is found in nary a sentence.

A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.

That’s the one.

1. It’s a command from Jesus- your God.
2. Those who love one another don’t kill one another.
3. War after war in history with Catholics killing Catholics, abetted by chaplains ordained by the Church, paid by the governments. (Mt 6:24)
4. Showing hatred, not love? Certainly not disciples of Jesus, then.

How many times must your God speak to you before you listen to him?
And here are my only questions for you that Jehovah thinks are worth discussing:
Is Ps 37:29 a true prophecy? If so, how do you intend to make yourself part of it?

 

[noprem]

Yeah and outside any JW Kingdom Hall all the above still happens,so I do not see the JW’s making it any better for any of us. And your point being…?

Here’s the only question between us now that Jehovah thinks is worth discussing:
*So what are we to think? The promises are all very nice, but it seems they’ve played out in history like modern campaign promises. Is Solomon the best we can hope for?
Or is there perhaps another to come- a greater than Solomon to be here? Of course that would mean we would be interpreting the Bible- the Psalm says specifically, Solomon, and there are no other Solomons in the Bible or among men of historical or present fame who fit the bill. Still, it would be nice to live under the conditions of Ps 72- and worldwide. What does your Church say about the matter? *

 

[Nicea325]

Here’s the only question between us now that Jehovah thinks is worth discussing:
*So what are we to think? The promises are all very nice, but it seems they’ve played out in history like modern campaign promises. Is Solomon the best we can hope for?
Or is there perhaps another to come- a greater than Solomon to be here? Of course that would mean we would be interpreting the Bible- the Psalm says specifically, Solomon, and there are no other Solomons in the Bible or among men of historical or present fame who fit the bill. Still, it would be nice to live under the conditions of Ps 72- and worldwide. What does your Church say about the matter? *

Easy: JESUS CHRIST!