scripture vs. tradition?

[Church_Militant]

jennifer101:

You know what? I am not pulling your leg. This is who I am. The saddest truth about your suspicion about me being a fake poster, is that it underscores how you have to have a certain “tone” or nuance about your language to be considered a real poster here. You really need to think about how narrow a definition you have for authentic voices when you get suspicious about another poster based on word choices or whatever. I’m as real as it gets, so maybe you’re the one acting?

Y’know Jen, it’s not a matter of any of us believing you one way or another, it’s a matter of you making statements that show that you either don’t rereally know what the Catholic Church teaches about many things (and why they teach what they do), or you have made the mistake of allowing fundamentailst non-Catholics influence you with erroneous teaching. It is also possible that there is some moral reason that you have rejected the essentials of Catholic teaching which would be the case if one has decided that certain morals are not for you and therefore opted to pick & choose which beliefs you wish to accept and reject. That is often referred to as “Cafeteria Catholicism”.

No one here has asserted that you are not what you claim to be, though some of us may indeed find your posts difficult to respond to while you claim to be a daughter of the church while spouting characteristically non-Catholic beliefs and asserting that the church is wrong :ehh: That just makes us wonder…

To one of the other posters… My son has Celiac disease. Tell me where Jesus handed down a recipe to be used exclusively for communion. That’s one tradition that I can happily live without.

You asked where Jesus handed down a recipe for the Eucharist.
(Matthew 26:26-28) "26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. 27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins. "

Then perhaps you should read Exodus 12, especially verses 14-20 as follows:"14 And this day shall be for a memorial to you: and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord in your generations with an everlasting observance. 15 Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread: in the first day there shall be no leaven in your houses: whosoever shall eat any thing leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall perish out of Israel.

16 The first day shall be holy and solemn, and the seventh day shall be kept with the like solemnity: you shall do no work in them, except those things that belong to eating. 17 And you shall observe the feast of the unleavened bread: for in this same day I will bring forth your army out of the land of Egypt, and you shall keep this day in your generations by a perpetual observance. 18 The first month, the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the same month in the evening. 19 Seven days there shall not be found any leaven in your houses: he that shall eat leavened bread, his soul shall perish out of the assembly of Israel, whether he be a stranger or born in the land. 20 You shall not eat any thing leavened: in all your habitations you shall eat unleavened bread. "
The Last Supper was Passover meal.

Holy days of obligation… Non obligation days, such as ash wednesday, fasting on specific days as outlined by the church, Mortal sins/venial sins and the definintions of them, kneeling, standing, sitting at specific times during mass… there’s no real dialogue encouraged.

Holy Days go all the way back to the OT, and the early church writes often & even in the NT about their “Love Feasts”

If you had been paying attention at Mass on Ash Wednesday and the Sunday before you’d’ve heard teh Gospel speak of fasting.

Mortal/venial sin? 1st John 5:16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask. 17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.

There is plenty of dialogue encouraged Jen, and substantially more than you find outside the church though there are those outside her who will readily assert these things in an effort to mislead Catholics into thinking otherwise.

cont’d

 

[JaneFrances]

jennifer101:

My son has Celiac disease. Tell me where Jesus handed down a recipe to be used exclusively for communion. That’s one tradition that I can happily live without. Holy days of obligation… Non obligation days, such as ash wednesday, fasting on specific days as outlined by the church, Mortal sins/venial sins and the definintions of them, kneeling, standing, sitting at specific times during mass… there’s no real dialogue encouraged. I’m taking my cues from the bible exclusively from here on in. I still like my saints too much to give them up. My endometriosis went away on a gluten free diet, so I won’t be receiving communion anymore because the church is too stubborn to provide gluten free hosts… I know, I know, there’s gluten light hosts available… You live with endometriosis for a year and a half, go gluten free, have the pain go away and tell me if you’d risk eating a gluten full host ever again in your life. I know, I know, I can have the wine… so can my celiac son… It’s not worth the stigma to get our own cup, make a fuss about keeping the host away from it completely and going off in a corner to sip our wine apart from the rest of the congregation. We’re “scandalous” to the Catholic Church. In order to avoid scandal, we’re to keep our gluten intolerance hush-hush. As if God made a mistake by not factoring in Celiacs when Jesus said “do this in memory of me”. Hardly. Just the Church leadership hung up on the wrong thing. It’s this adherence to “tradition” that began my separation from the church. I will no longer respect man made traditons as put forth by the Catholic church. I will reflect on what Jesus asks us to do, the 10 commandments and the examples in His parables. Other than that, it’s a tradition. Traditions are nothing more than stumbling blocks. The Popes can holler all they want about having God’s blessing to make up all the traditions they want. I no longer believe them. Frankly, they’re distorting their power to accomodate what they want to do.

Jennifer, your pain and its effects on your life are so evident by your post here! Please know that you are being prayed for this very moment.

You feel abandoned. You are not alone. Jesus Christ, our Lord Himself, was abandoned. This is the way of the Cross. You are suffering. You are not alone. In all your trials and experiences, you, like Simon the Cyrenean, have been plucked from the crowd to share a part in His eternal and salvific suffering. This is your cross and your blessing. It is the very mystery of Christ at work in you, as St. Paul tells us: “Even now I find joy in the suffering I endure for you. In my own flesh I fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ for the sake of his body, the church.” (Col. 1:24) In your frustration and brokeness, do not turn from your Church! Let the sacrificial love with which you endure your crosses be the very thing that brings about the reconciliation and healing you seek.

As for the man-made traditions that you have come to despise. . .I would just encourage you, as someone has suggested before, to focus on one at at time. If it is the issue of why there is gluten in the host bread, then pose a new thread to discuss that. If it is the link between the Popes and Tradition, then address that separately. You have a wonderful forum here to address, express, and release all your frustrations and concerns. There are people here who can help.

And, too. . .While you do not wish to be a “scandal” in recieving the Cup at communion, please do not forget that Jesus, too, was (and still is) a “scandal.” Do not let this draw you away from your Lord in the Eucharist. Do not forget that the very Cross of Jesus Christ was a “stumbling block” and considered “foolishness” (1 Cor. 1:23). This may be your opportunity to truly understand and appreciate His sacrifice for you!

 

[Mike_D30]

jennifer101:

My son has Celiac disease. Tell me where Jesus handed down a recipe to be used exclusively for communion. That’s one tradition that I can happily live without.

The Catholic Church believes that in order for the bread to become the literal Body of Christ, it must be bread and contain some levels of gluten. If it isn’t bread they would worry that you are literally worshipping a wafer and not the body of Christ. It would make you an idolater.

However I know they were working on a Host that contains a minimal amount of Gluten and is safe for most Celiac sufferers.

I can’t recieve the Eucharist because my marriage was performed out of the Catholic Church in a civil ceremony. I was in the military and (my now) wife got pregnant out of wedlock. We didn’t have the money to have a marriage in a Catholic Church and we were already living in sin, so we didn’t attempt it. Plus I was away from the Chruch for a bit anyway. But without getting married I couldn’t recieve payments from my unit and be able to live, or support my family. So the marriage had to happen quickly.

In the end, I can’t recieve Communion at all, not even the wine, my family and I sit while everyone else gets up to recieve. I would love to be able to recieve just the wine like you. It bothers me because I pray daily, I go to Mass at least four times a week, I started praying the rosary everyday, I go to confession once a month, I read the Bible daily, but in the end, I’m unworthy of recieving because of tradition. And while we sit, in a Church full of around 250 people, maybe three other people refrain from taking the Eucharist (it’s tough for me to believe that everyone who recieves does so in a state worthy of recieving the Eucharist, btu that’s another topic). It does get disheartening at times. But I’m just trying to stay faithful and hope everything works itself out.

 

[Church_Militant]

Originally Posted by jennifer101
I’m taking my cues from the bible exclusively from here on in.

Which is a post reformation error right off the top Jennifer. Who told you that that was the Christian way? Certainly not the Word of God, because it clearly says, “15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1st Timothy 3:15) Thus showing that “the pillar and ground of the truth” is the church, not the Bible which was barely written at the time Paul said that to Timothy. What does Jesus say He will build? His church, right? Doesn’t say a thing about anyone writing letters and putting them into a canonical book that would be the sole authority for Christian belief and practice, now does he?

I still like my saints too much to give them up. My endometriosis went away on a gluten free diet, so I won’t be receiving communion anymore because the church is too stubborn to provide gluten free hosts… I know, I know, there’s gluten light hosts available… You live with endometriosis for a year and a half, go gluten free, have the pain go away and tell me if you’d risk eating a gluten full host ever again in your life.

I would. In a hearbeat! Because I trust God. Moreover, if I did suffer from it, would that suffering be worse than his suffering for me on the cross? I certainly don’t think so…

The fact that the Gluten lite hosts are there if you need them is great! My God! I’d buy them myself and carry my own to every Mass, just so that the priest could consecrate them and I could receive. Most priests would gladly do it, and all the priests that I know would.

I know, I know, I can have the wine… so can my celiac son… It’s not worth the stigma to get our own cup, make a fuss about keeping the host away from it completely and going off in a corner to sip our wine apart from the rest of the congregation. We’re “scandalous” to the Catholic Church. In order to avoid scandal, we’re to keep our gluten intolerance hush-hush. As if God made a mistake by not factoring in Celiacs when Jesus said “do this in memory of me”.

If you need it ask for it. Volunteer to supply it yourself, (Which to me would make it all the more precious and a very humbling honor!) Jen, you stigmatize yourself because there is no “stigma” attached to any of this. The priests in my parish would happily let you guys sit right down front and be the first to receive without any comment to or from anyone else. Without trying to offend you, I think it’s your attitude that is your stigma, as re-reading your own posts would show.

Hardly. Just the Church leadership hung up on the wrong thing. It’s this adherence to “tradition” that began my separation from the church. I will no longer respect man made traditons as put forth by the Catholic church.

Then the “stigma” of separation is of your own making Jen, not from the church.These are not “man made traditions”. I’ve already shown you that. You are heading for “excommunicating” yourself without justice because you have not done the simple things that would meet the needs of you and your dear son. It sounds to me like you have not even sat down with your pastor and discussed this, because as I said before, I KNOW my own parish priests would HAPPILY help with something like this.

I will reflect on what Jesus asks us to do, the 10 commandments and the examples in His parables.

A drastic oversimplification. 1st Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them who labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you: 13 That you esteem them more abundantly in charity, for their work’s sake. Have peace with them. and Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Other than that, it’s a tradition. Traditions are nothing more than stumbling blocks. The Popes can holler all they want about having God’s blessing to make up all the traditions they want. I no longer believe them. Frankly, they’re distorting their power to accomodate what they want to do.

This last is nothing more than a defensive rant on your part. I’ve already shown you where you are in danger (by your attitude) of errors and sin.

Please…I beg you as a brother in the Lord Jesus Christ, don’t persist in this sort of behavior because you not only risk your own spiritual well-being but that of the son that you clearly love very very much by teaching him scandal.

If you simply go to your pastor and explain your needs, I have no doubt that it will be well dealt with and you will see that you are wrong about what you have said about the church.

 

[Crumpy]

myfavoritmartin:

Catholic catechism paragraph 82 Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."
Yet
Jesus warned us against tradition Mark 7:1-13

This is a tough one for a protestant to wrap their arms around.

To be more precise, what Jesus warned against, is using “tradition” to nullify the word of God. That is what Jesus was talking about in the verses you cite. A simple re-reading should convince you of this.

The word “tradition” is quite a rag bag term – that is, it takes in so much. The manner of dress in Western countries would more properly be called part of the “culture” rather than part of a “tradition” but it is also a tradition, as well. So, if you lived in the U.S. and dressed according to a different culture, you would still be following a tradition, just not a local one.

My point is that it is difficult to be without a tradition. So, Jesus’ words would be impossible for a protestant or anybody to follow especially if they are misinterpreted.

---

The more significant issue in the way the Catholic Church interprets “Tradition” is that, in part, it refers to the interpretation of scripture, which goes back to apostolic times. And, certainly, that is not an interpretation that nullifies the word of God.

The Catholic Church is the BEST place to learn the interpretation of scripture.

 

[JezCat]

myfavoritmartin:

would someone please share the promises of the rosary with me?
Also, to person above who wished to indicate that I was judging, It is not for me to judge rather to witness and help share the word of the lord, just as all of you are doing.

Oh! So you were just “witnessing” and not judging. So instead of doing that which Jesus warned against, (“Do not judge lest ye be judged”) you are merely breaking the commandment? (Thou shalt not bear false witness)

Bravo! That’s much better!

But seriously, instead of throwing out heresay as fact, you might try posting your objections in a different manner. One which doesn’t sound so judgmental and condescending. You’ll stand a good chance of learning what Catholics truly believe and practice instead of what some resident anti-Catholic within your church has told you. Good luck.

 

[jennifer101]

Thanks for the prayers above posters. I appreciate them.

To Churchmilitant. Oh, no you wouldn’t. Don’t go declaring things like that as if you know what you would do. You haven’t experienced it yet, so you have no idea what you’d do. That’s the most honest answer you can give to a question like the one I posed. At the height of my Endo pain, I could barely parent my three children due to the extreme pain I was in. I fell on the ground in public places and would have the wind knocked out of me due to the pain. I was handed two “tubs” of pain meds, Vicodin and motrin and told to take them everyday for the duration of my cycles. At the point of menopause, the pain may go away, or it may not, I was told. So staring down 20 years of pain medication, I prayed for a better solution. Knowing I have a Celiac child, I decided to see if the gluten was contributing… and guess what? It was. Dispite the fact that I tested negative for gluten sensitivity or Celiac disease.
Do you think God will marvel at your strength if are dx with something like I had and continue to eat the protein that provokes the pain??? Or do you think God will be relieved that you’ve found a solution to ending your pain and you take it and thank Him for guiding you and assisting you in finding relief? I am convinced God prefers the latter. It’s just messed up thinking to suggest you’d eat a food that caused you harm and compare yourself to Jesus while doing it.

 

[geno75]

Church Militant:

And then there is Solomon’s temple as desribed by the OT and the very one that the Jews hope to rebuild on its original site someday. Read the way it was decorated…and yet God never complained in the least.

Pax vobiscum,

So tell me, what temple can I find God in today Mr. Militant? We all know the NT states several times that now God does not dwell in temples made by man. So why do the believers need buildings with ornate materials like the temples?

Is this were the church teaches that there is “tradition” and “Tradition”? Then your church must also teach that there is the “word” and also the “Word.”

 

[Mike_D30]

geno75:

So tell me, what temple can I find God in today Mr. Militant? We all know the NT states several times that now God does not dwell in temples made by man. So why do the believers need buildings with ornate materials like the temples?

Is this were the church teaches that there is “tradition” and “Tradition”? Then your church must also teach that there is the “word” and also the “Word.”

Do you ask the builders of the multi- million dollar Crystal Cathedral the same question?

Catholics build beautiful Cathedrals because they honor God. Tome at least certain settings are more conducive to worship. I can worship much easily at my Church than say the subway.

 

[Ignatius]

jennifer101:

I’m tired of the Catholic traditions, myself. I’m a Catholic, but I respect a lot of what Martin Luther had to say. I’m anti-tradition at this point and will not submit to senseless tradition any longer. The bible is my guide,.

Hi jennifer,

You might want to do a little homework on the subject. The bible is one of the Sacred Traditions. It is the Church which defined, declared and decreed what books are divinely inspired and should be incorporated into the New Testament. It is Sacred Tradition and the guidance of the Holy Spirit which guided the Church in this determination.

Here are some facts that should be considered:

**The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

***It is . . . . decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. *. . . . .
***Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament. ***
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

**The Council of Hippo in 393 reaffirmed the canon put forth by Pope Damasus I…

AD 393:
***Council of Hippo. "It has been decided that besides the canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. *****(canon 36 A.D. 393).

**The Third Council of Carthage reaffirmed anew, the Canon put forth by Pope Damasus I…

***AD 397: ***
***Council of **Carthage III. "It has been decided that nothing except the canonical Scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine Scriptures. ***(canon 47 A.D. 397).

You may ask, what Authority did the Church have to determine which of the thousands of books available at the time where Divinely Inspired. The answer is that it is the Church which was given the Authority implicit when Christ gaves Peter the Keys of the Kingtom of Heaven.

I will follow the Church founded by Jesus Christ because Christ said He would be “with you always, even unto the end of time” and the “the gates of hell will not prevail against it”.

The Bible never claims to be the final Authority. In fact, the Bible itself says in first Timothy that the “Church which is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth”.

Grace and peace be with you.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[geno75]

Mike_D30:

Do you ask the builders of the multi- million dollar Crystal Cathedral the same question?

Catholics build beautiful Cathedrals because they honor God. Tome at least certain settings are more conducive to worship. I can worship much easily at my Church than say the subway.

The Lord says-“Heaven is my throne, and the Earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me?”

What is the one and only way we can honor God? It is by inviting Jesus in our lives and finishing his work his father wants done. How else can we honor him? He sends us out as sheep among the wolves, and nearly 2000 years later, we still need to honor him by our own hands and our own deceitful hearts that we think we know what is in it at all times.

 

[geno75]

Ignatius:

Hi jennifer,

The Bible never claims to be the final Authority. In fact, the Bible itself says in first Timothy that the “Church which is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth”.

Grace and peace be with you.

Your brother in Christ.

Yes, the church that Christ founded, that is the called out ones, are the pillar and foundation of truth.

 

[geno75]

Ignatius:

You may ask, what Authority did the Church have to determine which of the thousands of books available at the time where Divinely Inspired. The answer is that it is the Church which was given the Authority implicit when Christ gaves Peter the Keys of the Kingtom of Heaven.
The Bible never claims to be the final Authority. In fact, the Bible itself says in first Timothy that the “Church which is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth”.

Yada yada yada yada yada.

Do you know what I find AMAZING from these NT books the RCC claims to have canonized? I will tell ya.

Matthew 4 in short-
Jesus is led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted. 40 days and nights he fasted. Imagine the agony!!! Now Jesus gets to be tempted by satan. Satan at first tries to attack the flesh side of Jesus. And what does Jesus do?

Jesus quotes written scripture!!!
Not once, but 3 times!

Jesus overcame the temptor! By using written scripture!!! Thank you my Lord and Savior!

Holy Scripture--------devil tested and God Approved!!!

Amen
peace

 

[montanaman]

You know, Geno, a lot less than you think you do. If for nothing else but the sake of your eventual painful enlightenment and the egg on your face, you might want to tone down the sarcasm. We’ve heard it all before, and it’s all been refuted before.

 

[geno75]

montanaman:

the sarcasm.

Thats your interpretation!

Come on, you guys are no fun.

 

[MariaG]

geno75:

Yes, the church that Christ founded, that is the called out ones, are the pillar and foundation of truth.

Could you define what you mean by “the called out ones”?

God Bless,
Maria

 

[montanaman]

geno75:

Thats your interpretation!

Come on, you guys are no fun.

Fortunately or unfortunately, the mods here are very good at enforcing charity. Otherwise, it could get a lot more fun. So, I guess we’ll have to continue stoically blowing away your non sequiters, condescension, ignorance and other forms of Protestant smoke. If you want to debate for the sake of debating, just say so. Please don’t bother pretending to to do anything else.

 

[Eden]

geno75:

Jesus quotes written scripture!!!

The Old Testament. The New Testament had not been set until the 4th century at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage. No one said the scripture is not to be quoted or used as Christians. That would not make sense. That passage from Matthew was just read last Sunday at Mass as we entered the Lenten Season. The point we are making is that the Bible is not the ONLY source of the Word of God. We have Tradition *and *Scripture. The two are inseparable in His Church. I don’t know what you thought the #7 sized type was proving.

If you show me where in the Bible Jesus tells us a New Testament will be written and once it is set several centuries from then, it is to be the only source of Christian teaching. Now, if you find that, that deserves size 7 type. I’ll take a passage that says “Bible Only” for that matter.

Here is where we find oral tradition in the Bible:

Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God’s word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God’s law of honoring one’s father and mother.)

Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).

Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.

Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, “paradosis”) means “to hand on” teaching.

Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord’s day from Saturday to Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.

John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.

1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.

Eph. 4:20 – Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!”

Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.

Col. 1:5-6 – of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you. This delivery of the faith refers to the oral tradition the Colossians had previously received from the ordained leaders of the Church. This oral tradition is called the gospel of truth. 1 Thess.1:5 – our gospel came to you not only in word, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul is referring to the oral tradition which the Thessalonians had previously received. There is never any instruction to abandon these previous teachings; to the contrary, they are to be followed as the word of God.

I can’t fit it all in one post. More here: scripturecatholic.com .

 

[geno75]

Eden:

I can’t fit it all in one post. More here: http://www.scripturecatholic.com

.
Good, you dont need to.

So what is so sacred about teaching Christ in him crucifed? We were told to do it, so do it!

Catholic answers states somewheres that God likes to use material things to perform miracles.

Things like the printing press, ink, and paper!!!

Our Soverign God, our creator, isnt he awesome!!!

 

[Eden]

geno75:

Matthew 4 in short-
Jesus is led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted. 40 days and nights he fasted. Imagine the agony!!! Now Jesus gets to be tempted by satan. Satan at first tries to attack the flesh side of Jesus. And what does Jesus do?

The irony. I’m sure geno75 would be the first one to tell us that Lent, the 40 days of prayer and fasting for Catholics that prepares us for Easter, is unbiblical.