I would like to pose this question (not just to you, Jim):
If there is a “God’s Word” (post-Apostolic) other than the Bible, then what is the “sword” of the mouth of Jesus that He will “fight” with in Rev 2:16? The church?
Heb 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That is a wicked description; surely sounds like a fight. Is Jesus saying that the church is going to do this?
When people tell me the Word of God is not JUST the Bible, it must mean that the church is somehow the Word of God, or the Bible is only SOME of the Word of God and the church is the rest…
There is only one Word of God that I know of (other than Jesus; the Word made flesh). I’ve never seen anything coming from the church that is as “quick”, “powerful”, “sharp” or “piercing” as Scripture is.
Joy of Catholic:
Maybe this will help:
Let’s start with the citation from Hebrews, because I really believe you’ve misinterpreted the scripture, and The Message will help in pointing out your error:
Hebrews 4:12-23 The Message
God means what he says. What he says goes. His powerful Word is sharp as a surgeon’s scalpel, cutting through everything, whether doubt or defense, laying us open to listen and obey. Nothing and no one is impervious to God’s Word. We can’t get away from it—no matter what.
According to this translation, God’s Word is supposed to help lead the doubing to faith and to help convict us of our sin and disobedience. That hardly sounds like a violent process, unless you consider the discipline of a son or daughter by a loving Father to be violent.
And, here are the other Scriptures which refer to the Sword coming from Christ’s Mouth:
Revelation 1:9-17a The Message
*I, John, with you all the way in the trial and the Kingdom and the passion of patience in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of God’s Word, the witness of Jesus. It was Sunday and I was in the Spirit, praying. I heard a loud voice behind me, trumpet-clear and piercing: “Write what you see into a book. Send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea.” I turned and saw the voice. *
I saw a gold menorah
with seven branches,
And in the center, the Son of Man,
in a robe and gold breastplate,
hair a blizzard of white,
Eyes pouring fire-blaze,
both feet furnace-fired bronze,
His voice a cataract,
right hand holding the Seven Stars,
His mouth a sharp-biting sword,
his face a perigee sun.
I saw this and fainted dead at his feet. His right hand pulled me upright, his voice reassured me:
Revelation 19:11-16 The Message
Then I saw Heaven open wide—and oh! a white horse and its Rider. The Rider, named Faithful and True, judges and makes war in pure righteousness. His eyes are a blaze of fire, on his head many crowns. He has a Name inscribed that’s known only to himself. He is dressed in a robe soaked with blood, and he is addressed as “Word of God.” The armies of Heaven, mounted on white horses and dressed in dazzling white linen, follow him. A sharp sword comes out of his mouth so he can subdue the nations, then rule them with a rod of iron. He treads the winepress of the raging wrath of God, the Sovereign-Strong. On his robe and thigh is written, King of kings, Lord of lords.
In Catholic Teaching, the Word of God (when we’re not referring to Jesus Christ, who is the WORD OF GOD) refers to the whole deposit of Divine Revelation - The Sacred Scriptures and Tradition of the Church together. This was the understanding of the Church from the time of the Apostles and what allowed the Apostles’ successors to discern which books were faithful to the Gospel they received and the Faith they transmitted among the hundreds which were written from 50 AD to 150 AD.
Sometimes in these debates over the Bible as God’s Word, and in misunderstandings over the same, we forget that the real Saving Word of God is Jesus Christ, the Word of God who leapt down from his throne and became incarnate in the Virgins womb, and then condescended to be betrayed to evil men so that we could be saved from our sins and the penalty of eternal death.
Maybe, we should take some time out from our debates to thank and praise Him for this great and wondrous gift He has given us.
May all of you have a blessed Holy Week and an Easter spent worshipping the slain and risen Lord.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
). It’s not so bad when I can respond shortly after someone else has replied to something, but I don’t have enough time to dedicate to this. I also feel like I’m going around in circles explaining how I see things which may be my fault for having 3 threads going at the same time. I will, however be looking back at this and reconsidering everyone’s p.o.v.