Scriptures and Homosexuality

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I: Things are divided into the Moral, Judicial, and Ceremonial law in Scripture according to Jimmy Akin’s The Bible and Homosexuality: How to Respond to Dan Savage’s Attack which will be the basis of this posts claims.
II: Homosexuality is regarded under the Moral Law, still binding. But couldn’t it be under the Judicial Law, not binding but a good idea for health reasons? In the time period.
III: Couldn’t St. Paul be speaking about the punishment of hellfire in a sense, to where it was actually applicable in another sense?
IV: Could the Church be wrong on this issue?
 
The Church has not issued an infallible statement on their interpretation of scripture, but you know that the Church has long taught against the practice of homosexuality.

For 16 centuries, the Church taught that gambling was evil,up to and including the council of trent, but then afterwards, some theologians pencil-whipped the matter and declared that gambling was OK, unless proscribed by the local bishop – and who has ever heard of that?

My parish has an annual festival including a beer tent, and they hold a Mass IN THE BEER TENT on the Sunday of the festival, to prevent the inconvenience of the workers from driving four small city blocks from the church to the festival grounds, even since the Saturday Mass was permitted a couple decades ago.

Homosexual advocates have done their own Biblical studies and pointed out that homosexuality as we know it today is not what the Bible talks about, either pagan ritual homosexuality or the discretionary male rather than a female partnership that Romans seems to imply.

Reformed Judaism is very radical in its rejection of the Torah, dismissing it as revelation-THEN, looking for revelation-NOW. In that branch of Judaism, there are, if am so wisely informed, both female and homosexual rabbis. Now, “rabbinic” Judaism is arguably not biblical either, and the other main branches of Judaism have it, except for those practicing non-rabbinic Judaism (which does not find rabbis in the Jewish Scripture).

The Church has a solid stance against approving homosexual conduct, as it has a solid stance against divorce. You cannot get remarried in the Church until your previous marriage has been annulled. I don’t think you’re even supposed to approach Communion if you are divorced; this has been a big controversy in the last year or two and the world is awaiting the Pope to summarize the recommendations of the synod on the family which recently took place a year or two ago.

While taking such a solid stance against homosexual conduct (and certainly homosexual unions), it has nevertheless written a Catechism which it holds forth as the “deposit of faith” which we must all hold to be true.

Para. 1735 says that a person may have diminished or nullified responsibility for an action…for a whole variety of reasons, including inordinate attachments, and psychological or social “factors.” Homosexual conduct is objectively disordered (says the Catechism of the Catholic Church), but according to 1735 – which I believe is about God’s mercy – homosexuality is not the “unforgivable sin” we must observe – a person may knowingly engage in h. behavior and yet MAY have diminished or even nullified responsibility for the obvious psychological and social factors – over which there is no scientific agreement.

So, I expect the Church will continue to condemn it, while at the same time, it is constrained by it own teaching (1735) from saying that an active homosexual may not have God’s mercy – I have sent an inquiry on the general meaning of 1735 to my local bishop, so far without a response.

Science has just announced the discovery of a gene for gray hair. There are a lot of mysterious genes which seem to have no known function, so there may be the genetic needle in the haystack left that science has not uncovered as yet. And, epigenetics is a vast field for future exploration.

The future question may be, if there IS a “cure” for homosexuality (nothing mankind has ever inflicted on itself so far has ever resulted in the change of sexual orientation), then will it be a sin to NOT “take the cure” ? e.g. a gamma knife procedure that destroys some locus in the brain.
 
I: Things are divided into the Moral, Judicial, and Ceremonial law in Scripture according to Jimmy Akin’s The Bible and Homosexuality: How to Respond to Dan Savage’s Attack which will be the basis of this posts claims.
II: Homosexuality is regarded under the Moral Law, still binding. But couldn’t it be under the Judicial Law, not binding but a good idea for health reasons? In the time period.
III: Couldn’t St. Paul be speaking about the punishment of hellfire in a sense, to where it was actually applicable in another sense? Adultery’s punishment is stoning in the OT. Why must homosexuality’s punishment be less than hellfire.
IV: Could the Church be wrong on this issue?
 
I’m not sure there are many adults I would describe as being in ‘a perfect state of mind’ there Up!

When the bible was written, they didn’t know about germs, viruses, and diseases, in most cases unclean meant sinful, not infected. So not sure were health reasons is coming from in your post. Interesting questions though. I hope you are keeping on top of your math, science, and english classes as well as bible studies 🙂
 
The Church doesn’t get the teaching on Homosexuality from those specific verses of the Bible alone, there isn’t enough in them to form a definitive teaching. It’s mostly derived from the teachings on what marriage is, and not what it isn’t, as well as from study of natural law.
 
The Church doesn’t get the teaching on Homosexuality from those specific verses of the Bible alone, there isn’t enough in them to form a definitive teaching. It’s mostly derived from the teachings on what marriage is, and not what it isn’t, as well as from study of natural law.
Sexual activity among people, promiscuity I guess I should say is a bad habit. Like gluttony. Straight or gay or anything else. It is also dangerous and not keeping with human dignity. If you are looking for sources the main one I can think of is humane vitae. Promiscuity can get you shot or seriously injured. IMO it’s not worth it. How one is to have sex in a marriage too can be immoral according to Paul VI. I don’t know if an encyclical like humane vitae is infallible or not. It is morals.

:twocents:
 
There is a definite teaching on the subject. Are you serious? Do we really need to post scripture. Wow. We are carholic. Bible is the word of god.
 
In my previous post, I drifted into a discussion of having Mass in a beer tent, and my point is that things in the Church can be rationalized when somebody wants them to be, like my preceding example of the change regarding gambling. Sure, somebody comes along and says it’s OK after 16 centuries of opposition. Gambling? sure. Mass in a beet tent? youbetcha.

The Church has a reputation if not an actual history of being anti-semitic. In Vatican II it made a point of distancing itself from the prejudices against Jews of the past.

Another argument against the adoption of the OT proscriptions against homosexual conduct comes from the Bible itself. Those prohibitions of the Torah were part of the covenant that God made with Israel. Modern Judaism holds to that, virtually that the Torah is nobody else’s business except the Jews.

Jesus didn’t seem to have thought the subject important enough to talk about.

In 1st-2nd Century Judaism, Judaism had to deal with the catastrophe of the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. It had to re-define itself – and what about all those sacrifices and practices that were associated with the Temple? Rabbi Akiva made a landmark ruling that when faced with death, all the covenant rules were out the window, except that one could not practice idolatry, murder, adultery, and one other thing (can’t think). So, he basically provided a parallel rationalization for “duress” that is in Para. 1735 of the Catechism.

While not approving of evil acts, they cannot always be avoided.
 
Just being divorced, of itself, doesn’t prevent one from coming to Communion. It’s attempting marriage again without a declaration of nullity for the first one.
Christ never abrogated the moral law, in fact he expanded it; take the teaching about looking at a woman lustfully. Bishops may have taken a dim view of gambling, but I’ve never seen it as an actual magisterial Church teaching. What is your source?
The marital act is for marriage. Marriage involves one man and one woman.
 
I: Things are divided into the Moral, Judicial, and Ceremonial law in Scripture according to Jimmy Akin’s The Bible and Homosexuality: How to Respond to Dan Savage’s Attack which will be the basis of this posts claims.
II: Homosexuality is regarded under the Moral Law, still binding. But couldn’t it be under the Judicial Law, not binding but a good idea for health reasons? In the time period.
III: Couldn’t St. Paul be speaking about the punishment of hellfire in a sense, to where it was actually applicable in another sense?
IV: Could the Church be wrong on this issue?
I would check out Romans 1. It’s fairly straight forward.

I would also check out Genesis 38 and Ephesians 5.

Lastly, think about God’s design and why He made man and woman.
 
I: Things are divided into the Moral, Judicial, and Ceremonial law in Scripture according to Jimmy Akin’s The Bible and Homosexuality: How to Respond to Dan Savage’s Attack which will be the basis of this posts claims.
II: Homosexuality is regarded under the Moral Law, still binding. But couldn’t it be under the Judicial Law, not binding but a good idea for health reasons? In the time period.
III: Couldn’t St. Paul be speaking about the punishment of hellfire in a sense, to where it was actually applicable in another sense?
IV: Could the Church be wrong on this issue?
There were LGBTQ humans from time immemorial. As a retired high school teacher, I am able to safely surmise that you are quite obviously well read and your writing skills are exactly what most universities are looking for. If a person is born gay then they are gay. I was born straight and I can’t ever imagine another human being telling me that being straight is my choice. 🤷
 
There were LGBTQ humans from time immemorial. As a retired high school teacher, I am able to safely surmise that you are quite obviously well read and your writing skills are exactly what most universities are looking for. If a person is born gay then they are gay. I was born straight and I can’t ever imagine another human being telling me that being straight is my choice. 🤷
There is no scientific evidence of being born gay or a homosexual
 
There is no scientific evidence of being born gay or a homosexual
Which is irrelevant either way.

For (1) People are born in ways contrary to God’s plan. Consider the disabled, or just the general fact that all people are born with inclination to sin.

(2) Homosexual people experience a dominant attraction/tendency that is not of their own choice.
 
Which is irrelevant either way.

For (1) People are born in ways contrary to God’s plan. Consider the disabled, or just the general fact that all people are born with inclination to sin.

(2) Homosexual people experience a dominant attraction/tendency that is not of their own choice.
No evidence of this. No scientific proof. Without facts, anything can be said or believed.
 
I: Things are divided into the Moral, Judicial, and Ceremonial law in Scripture according to Jimmy Akin’s The Bible and Homosexuality: How to Respond to Dan Savage’s Attack which will be the basis of this posts claims.
II: Homosexuality is regarded under the Moral Law, still binding. But couldn’t it be under the Judicial Law, not binding but a good idea for health reasons? In the time period.
III: Couldn’t St. Paul be speaking about the punishment of hellfire in a sense, to where it was actually applicable in another sense?
IV: Could the Church be wrong on this issue?
II: Moral teachings on homosexuality are regarded by the Church as part of the Moral Law. But references to homosexuality in the Bible have to be taken on a case-by-case basis, for each passage has its own context. For example, in Leviticus, condemning those who have gay sex to death surely would not be a part of the moral law: Do you see anyone in the church today supporting the death penalty for homosexual persons? No. And even when we look to the New Testament, in Romans for example, we have to be clear what is being talked about. Is Paul speaking of homosexual acts by their very nature? Any and all kinds? Or is he speaking of a different context, such as lustful, out-of-control individuals? Would Paul even be familiar with homosexual couples the way we are today? Or was his understanding of homosexuality restricted to the times? For, homosexual practice often took the form of pederasty and was associated with Pagans.

III: I didn’t watch the vid, so I’m not sure what that’s in reference to.

IV: Depends on in what sense you are asking. An orthodox Catholic could say that the teaching on homosexuality is part of the universal, ordinary magisterium. In other words, it is a teaching that has been taught by bishops throughout the world throughout history. Therefore, it is considered infallible. But someone could also make a valid point by saying that our understanding of homosexuality has changed: It is not just something people DO but something people are and experience within themselves.
 
There is no scientific evidence of being born gay or a homosexual
Whether people are born with a predisposition to be gay or not gay is irrelevant. The follow through on homosexual actions is still morally wrong and against the natural law. Being born with a predisposition to alcoholism doesn’t make drinking to excess, even if it doesn’t impact work, okay. Neither does the fact that people are born with club feet make having club feet natural to the human essence.

Edit: My apologies for the original wording, which incorrectly implied that same sex attraction, without any action, was itself morally wrong. It is not. God loves us, and desires us to strive to perfect ourselves according to our essence, even when we struggle and fall.
 
I totally agree it is morally wrong and against natural law the Bible is the word of God and we as Catholics have to uphold the word of God to the fullest extent
 
There were LGBTQ humans from time immemorial. As a retired high school teacher, I am able to safely surmise that you are quite obviously well read and your writing skills are exactly what most universities are looking for. If a person is born gay then they are gay. I was born straight and I can’t ever imagine another human being telling me that being straight is my choice. 🤷
Does that B mean Bisexual or Bestiality ? What’s the Q and T ?
 
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