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BRB
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I know we are to venerate Mary as our blessed Mother … the scriptures in Matthew tell us so. But, how about the other scriptures in OT or NT on the subject ?
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brycelaliberte
Guest
This should answer just about any question about Mary, from Scriptures and the ECFs; scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html
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BRB
Guest
19 pages on Mary … thanks Bryce, you’ve got Mary covered !
Anyone else have references on OT prophets or other saints ?
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Jennifer123
Guest
Try searching “communion of the saints” as that is most commonly referred to when discussing prayer to saints. It’s not complicated, but there is a lot of ground to cover considering where your level of knowledge begins on the issue…
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Brady_W
Guest
Hail Holy Queen By Scott Hahn good stuff
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Pax
Guest
Prayer to the Saints
Please note that in Eph 6:18-19 we read, “Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me,” and in 1 Tim 2:1 we read, “FIRST OF all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,” In James 5:16 we are also told to “pray for one another.”
Now, it is clear from scripture that we are to engage in intercessory prayer. Moreover, the apostle James tells us that “the prayer of a just man availeth much.” In the book of Hebrews 12:22-23 it says that, “…you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,” If the prayers of a just man availeth much, surely the prayers of “just men made perfect” will be of even greater effect.
Some refer to all these people as “dead.” This is contrary to scripture. Jesus, himself, says in Matt 22:32 “‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” Those in heaven are more alive in Christ than we are. We also read in the Gospels that Jesus was transfigured on Mount Tabor. At the transfiguration Jesus is seen and heard speaking with Moses and Elijah.
The Catholic bible also contains the entirety of scripture. In 2 Maccabees 12:38-44 we read about prayer for the dead. In chapter 15 verses 11-16 we read about intercession by the saints.
Catholic understandings in this area are the most compatible with scripture, and are fully patterned on what we know of the heavenly members of the body of Christ. This practice in no way changes or modifies our understandings of the Holy Spirit nor does it belittle Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. It’s important to keep in mind that we are all members of the body of Christ. Paul tells us in Romans 8:33-39, “For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Those who are part of the body of Christ in heaven are still connected to those that are members of the body of Christ on earth. This made even more clear by the unity describe in Rev 5:13 where it says, “And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”
And yes, through Jesus, they are in some ways aware of what is happening on earth. Those in heaven are as Jesus tells us, “like angels.” And scripture tells us in Luke 15:10, " Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Obviously, those in heaven know something about what’s happening on earth. The bible gives us numerous examples of angels interacting with men. The book of Revelation 6:9 also cites an example of the martyrs being aware that God has not yet avenged their blood. This is not an exhaustive list of passages but it is sufficient to show that this is all part of God’s divine plan. God’s plan works only for good and everything within it magnifies and glorifies the Lord. None of it detracts from God in any way.
Please note that in Eph 6:18-19 we read, “Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me,” and in 1 Tim 2:1 we read, “FIRST OF all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,” In James 5:16 we are also told to “pray for one another.”
Now, it is clear from scripture that we are to engage in intercessory prayer. Moreover, the apostle James tells us that “the prayer of a just man availeth much.” In the book of Hebrews 12:22-23 it says that, “…you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,” If the prayers of a just man availeth much, surely the prayers of “just men made perfect” will be of even greater effect.
Some refer to all these people as “dead.” This is contrary to scripture. Jesus, himself, says in Matt 22:32 “‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” Those in heaven are more alive in Christ than we are. We also read in the Gospels that Jesus was transfigured on Mount Tabor. At the transfiguration Jesus is seen and heard speaking with Moses and Elijah.
The Catholic bible also contains the entirety of scripture. In 2 Maccabees 12:38-44 we read about prayer for the dead. In chapter 15 verses 11-16 we read about intercession by the saints.
Catholic understandings in this area are the most compatible with scripture, and are fully patterned on what we know of the heavenly members of the body of Christ. This practice in no way changes or modifies our understandings of the Holy Spirit nor does it belittle Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. It’s important to keep in mind that we are all members of the body of Christ. Paul tells us in Romans 8:33-39, “For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Those who are part of the body of Christ in heaven are still connected to those that are members of the body of Christ on earth. This made even more clear by the unity describe in Rev 5:13 where it says, “And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”
And yes, through Jesus, they are in some ways aware of what is happening on earth. Those in heaven are as Jesus tells us, “like angels.” And scripture tells us in Luke 15:10, " Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Obviously, those in heaven know something about what’s happening on earth. The bible gives us numerous examples of angels interacting with men. The book of Revelation 6:9 also cites an example of the martyrs being aware that God has not yet avenged their blood. This is not an exhaustive list of passages but it is sufficient to show that this is all part of God’s divine plan. God’s plan works only for good and everything within it magnifies and glorifies the Lord. None of it detracts from God in any way.
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Godlovestrength
Guest
“He must increase, I must decrease”
This point relates “ONLY” to Jesus no other.
God bless
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Godlovestrength
Guest
I have been told that there are many and I mean many who are stiffaled that they should pray to Jesus who is GOD and so HOLY. But to these, Jesus is fare too holy, and they find that they need another means to get to Jesus.
So they might pray through Mary but, there are those who God has blessed with different extream gifts, we call them “saints”. These people find that they are able to pray to Jesus through these people called saints.
We must remember that these “saints” are not so in this life but accepted through much testing by the church and then only those who God wishes are elected.
Godless
So they might pray through Mary but, there are those who God has blessed with different extream gifts, we call them “saints”. These people find that they are able to pray to Jesus through these people called saints.
We must remember that these “saints” are not so in this life but accepted through much testing by the church and then only those who God wishes are elected.
Godless
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BRB
Guest
You have alot there to consider. I will take time to go thru it all. But, at first glance … regarding the above verses:
Looks like we are told to offer prayer/supplication FOR the saints[Christians], all mankind, each other. I don’t see where we are being told to pray TO the saints to intervene on our behalf to God the Father, or to the Son.
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BRB
Guest
Yes … For them. These scriptures clearly advise us to do so.Do you pray for others and their intentions here on Earth?
But, my question is re: those scriptures calling for us to pray TO the saints in heaven to intercede on our behalf before the Lord.
Now, we will ask people we know, [priests, friends, etc] to pray for us on certain matters. First off, we know our friends clearly hear our requests for prayer.
In the case of saints … how do we know they hear our prayers and can intercede on our behalf ?
Any scriptures to support this ?
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Jennifer123
Guest
The saints in Heaven are as close to us,if not closer, as bretheren here on Earth. We are all one body - interconnected through Christ. Nothing separates us from Christ’s love - not even death. Those who die with Christ are alive in Him. Christ is unchanging, does it really make sense that our mission on Earth, through His love for us, change when we are united with Him in Heaven?
Here’s a link to a good explanation with scriptural support from a website hosted by a fellow CAF member:
bringyou.to/apologetics/a96.htm
If you can listen to Catholic Answers Live, here’s a recent show that discussed the Communion of Saints:
catholic.com/radio/calendar.php
(April 9th show by TimStaples)
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