Scruples - a parent’s question

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Woo-hoo, gonna sneak another goodie in here before the doors close. :crazy_face:

My daughter has OCD & is scrupulous. She has a fantastic therapist, but he’s Mormon. He’s extremely respectful of Catholicism but he doesn’t understand the Catholic understanding of mortal vs venial sin. As anyone with OCD or scrupulosity can guess, this topic plagues my child. Privately the therapist asked if I might consider letting my daughter switch to a different church (Protestantism) that didn’t distinguish levels of seriousness in sin, for my daughters peace of mind. I thanked him for his thoughtful suggestion, but of course we won’t be going that route!

My question: is there a Catholic resource for scrupulous souls? Or their parents?! The therapist is fabulous at addressing all other obsessions and compulsions except those pertaining to sin / worrying about being in mortal sin / fear of receiving Communion unworthily. I am not supposed to coach my daughter through every scenario her mind plays - I am supposed to give her the tools to think for herself so she can move beyond her condition. This is one area where I feel stumped. Help?
 
Spiritual direction from a priest trained to assist those with scruples is the best course of action.

There are also Catholic therapists who deal with OCD and religious OCD.
 
Never heard of that title / office - I’ll look into it. Thank you!

(Edited to add: email sent!)
 
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Hey Jen. Thanks for caring for your child and their mental health. As someone who struggled with scrupulosity for a while, lived in Utah :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:, and is a lifelong catholic I’m more than happy to have an honest discussion with you about this f out would like. Pm me anytime if you’re interested.

As another poster pointed out, Scrupulous Anonymous can be very helpful. The “10 commandments for the Scrupulous” can be quite effective.

I’ve also heard a few points which make a lot of sense throughout my journey.

Sadly I don’t think scrupulosity is the most understood phenomenon. I found psychology helpful, but I also ended up walking away finally, as psychology sometimes doesn’t take realistically the spiritual aspects we can sometimes face. In my honest opinion there are psychological and spiritual components to it. Bringing those two together is vital for success. But there is every reason to be hopeful. Getting a good mix of psychologist and priest can really help.
Best regards.
 
Servant31, I just read the 10 commandments of the scrupulous and I think they will help her tremendously! I’m going to print them so she can keep a copy. The ability for me to be able to basically say “if in (moral) doubt, toss the worry out!” is going to revolutionize her world!
 
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I guess it depend on your daughter’s age.

I bought a book recently it was helpful. My son has OCD tendencies and tends to be scrupulous.

Let me find it.

“Understanding Scrupulosity: Questions, Helps, and Encouragement” by Rev. Thomas Santa.
 
Oh I just saw, this book is by one of the people associated with the website mentioned earlier.
 
JimG said:
You might want to check Scrupulous Anonymous.
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Unfortunately, the current director of this apostolate seems to be rather lax… though I have not read much of his stuff, much of what I have was quite “out there.” Couldn’t recommend the current activities of the apostolate (though their “10 Commandments for the Scrupulous” is a good guide).

The best resource is a relationship of spiritual obedience . . . with a faithful priest . . . She will be freed of responsibility for her own actions, in a certain sense, and at least from confessing them neurotically. Father should also tell her how often to make confession - certainly not more than once a week, likely not more than once every other week.

I’d also recommend reading St. Alphonsus Liguori (no laxist himself!) on this point here, on pages 94 onward, and also 118 onward (connected phenomena): ST Alphonsus Liguori Guide For Confessors | PDF | Penance | Worship

Prayers for your struggling daughter…

-K
 
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Yeah I think that’s a huge step tbh.

Look without digging on anyone…I’m an idealist in a world full of very rational people. That’s fine. But I think even a church can get pedantic sometimes, and then there is the politics, the popular people which can seemingly get away with skirting and even changing rules around whenever they like…

God knows our hearts, and that’s what counts. Getting that really understood , and internalized, was very helpful for me.

Offer stands if you end up needing it. Best for you guys.
 
I don’t know who is the current director of Scrupulous Anonymous. It was Fr. Tom Santa for quite some time but he may be retired now.
 
He’s the author of the book I have for my son. I found it helpful.
 
Jen7 said:
Woo-hoo, gonna sneak another goodie in here before the doors close. :crazy_face:

My daughter has OCD & is scrupulous. She has a fantastic therapist, but he’s Mormon. He’s extremely respectful of Catholicism but he doesn’t understand the Catholic understanding of mortal vs venial sin. As anyone with OCD or scrupulosity can guess, this topic plagues my child. Privately the therapist asked if I might consider letting my daughter switch to a different church (Protestantism) that didn’t distinguish levels of seriousness in sin, for my daughters peace of mind. I thanked him for his thoughtful suggestion, but of course we won’t be going that route!

My question: is there a Catholic resource for scrupulous souls? Or their parents?! The therapist is fabulous at addressing all other obsessions and compulsions except those pertaining to sin / worrying about being in mortal sin / fear of receiving Communion unworthily. I am not supposed to coach my daughter through every scenario her mind plays - I am supposed to give her the tools to think for herself so she can move beyond her condition. This is one area where I feel stumped. Help?
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Since a person cannot know with absolute certainty, short of divine revelation, that there is a state of sanctifying grace in the soul, only a reasonable judgment can be made about it. If it seems to be true then note that a sin cannot occur without the act being voluntary, and also, temptation is often not voluntary (as in a voluntary near occasion of sin). Some suffer from automatic thoughts which are not voluntary. Consent to sin can be partial such as when considering it, after recognizing it, so would not be mortal on that account.
 
As usual, I may not be the most qualified person, but…

I think a well-founded and grounded understanding of these distinctions would be helpful. You won’t be wondering if X is a mortal sin if you know that they don’t actually meet the qualifications for mortal sin, and you shouldn’t be wondering if Y is a sin if you know they don’t actually meet the qualifications for an actual sin (ie will being absent etc).
And if you can’t help but think about it, then this helps recognize the need and realize the practice of ordering such things according to reason: have the emotions flow from reason, not the other way around.
 
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I am sorry that I can’t help.

I found the suggestion of the therapist to switch denomination very shocking… and unrespectful.
 
I knew Fr. Santa when he was the director of a retreat center. He never struck me as being lax as to faith or morals. I have no knowledge of Scrupulous Anonymous except that it is a Redemptorist ministry. It may well be that for the scrupulous, a different approach is necessary. Presenting an attitude of moral strictness to a person afflicted with scrupulosity might make things worse. But I’m no expert on the subject.
 
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