Scrupulosity, confession of 'mortal sins' and confessiong childhood sins

[Melkite_Sword]

if a scrupulous person commits what they believe at the time to be a grave sin, which is not in fact a grave sin, but they think it is and commit it anyway. does this constitute mortal sin and thus need to be confessed? (I think it’s generally the case that if a person thought something was grave matter and committed it then it would be regarded as mortal, I could be wrong though). Also, what about committing grave matter as a child? for example, if a 7 year old bully decides to bash another boy, clearly he knows its wrong but does it anyway, when he turns 25 he decides to go to confession, should he confess this sin?

 

[1ke]

A scrupulous person should be asking these questions of their spiritual director. Not the internet.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

A scrupulous person should be asking these questions of their spiritual director. Not the internet.

Noone asks things to the internet.
People ask things through the telephone, through visual contact, through letters and through internet ways…

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

if a scrupulous person commits what they believe at the time to be a grave sin, which is not in fact a grave sin, but they think it is and commit it anyway. does this constitute mortal sin and thus need to be confessed? (I think it’s generally the case that if a person thought something was grave matter and committed it then it would be regarded as mortal, I could be wrong though). Also, what about committing grave matter as a child? for example, if a 7 year old bully decides to bash another boy, clearly he knows its wrong but does it anyway, when he turns 25 he decides to go to confession, should he confess this sin?

A sin is a grave sin for God decided it.
It is not up to us to decide what is and what is not a gave sin.
I think the fellow should confess everything. The confessor will distinguish what is and what is not a sin.
Usually small kids are not prepared to commit grave sins. They are too small and unconscious.
I think that at you should confess everything that bothers you. Let the priest distinguish what you say.

 

[kieron123]

Depends on the situation that caused those childhood sins. I was bullied for years as a child, when I was 6 I had enough and and struck my attackers by swinging a bench at them. It was self defense, did I confess it? No.

If you believe something is a sin, tell it to your priest, he will guide you appropriately.

 

[Bookcat]

Having had the occasion at times to respond to questions from those who struggle with with scruples I will note here a few things in general one can find in theological works on such:

One must distinguish between a scrupulous conscience and a delicate conscience.

A ‘tender conscience or delicate conscience’ sees the finer distinctions and seeks very much to avoid even very small sins …and …who can judge normally between mortal and venial sin…when in doubt is able to make judgments overcoming his doubt by prudence or abide by good advice etc

as for scruples…or scrupulosity

Scruples or those who are even of a higher degree of scrupulosity take venial sin to be mortal…or non sins to be sins…or are plagued by doubts…unreasonable fears/anxieties about sins…seeing them or fearing them where they need not…etc etc

The french call it the doubting disease (though it is not a disease) for one has lot of problems knowing one knows…thus with “doubt” (or more often rather “apparent doubt”)

Of course there are degrees and it is possible for a person to have generally a delicate conscience or a normal conscience and still have a struggle with scruples in certain areas…or to have very* transient scruples* at the time of their conversion …

and a person may go from one to the other…

one combats scruples with a good regular confessor…

by forming ones conscience…(with such as the Catechism etc)

and with the confessors guidance acting against ones scruples…

possibly by general principles given often historically by confessors to deal with scruples

by prayer…

by trust and joy in living the Christian life…(not necessarily “emotional” by the way)

With the help of your confessor:

Contra scruplos agendum est, et fixo operis pede certandum

(Act contrary to scruples and with a firm foot overcome them)

Overcoming ones scruples…ones fears with a “firm foot”. Learning to act against them under the guidance of your confessor. Dismiss them. Not argue with them. (for example the regular confessor says…“unless you are certain you have committed a mortal sin…go to communion”…and you feel the fear and the doubts and the worries at the time of communion “but perhaps I committed one…?” you tell yourself “I am not certain of any mortal sins and my confessor told me to go” and you act against your fears and go to Communion! or ones confessor says regarding old past sins “only confess old sins if you are certain it was a mortal sin and certain you have not confessed it…(such is often the advice for those who are scrupulous)” one does just that -and if one is mistaken here one it not on you for a it can be the case that those who are scrupulous are in a “different boat” that others.) etc

(in a way one needs be “scrupulous” about attending to ones scruples…)

When scruples arise --turn to God and let the pass by.

Scruples are to be treated like a barking dog or a hissing goose…one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? (image borrowed from a 15th cent. Carthusian).

They are to be “despised”…“dismissed”…

And again a* regular confessor *is very important here…in even coming to know what ones scruples are…and then what to dismiss… It is he who can particularly guide a person with these difficulties.

(so to answer your question - bring your difficulties to your confessor)

 

[BenedictFTW]

if a scrupulous person commits what they believe at the time to be a grave sin, which is not in fact a grave sin, but they think it is and commit it anyway. does this constitute mortal sin and thus need to be confessed? (I think it’s generally the case that if a person thought something was grave matter and committed it then it would be regarded as mortal, I could be wrong though). Also, what about committing grave matter as a child? for example, if a 7 year old bully decides to bash another boy, clearly he knows its wrong but does it anyway, when he turns 25 he decides to go to confession, should he confess this sin?

I was taught as a child that for a sin to be mortal it has to have these criterion “grave matter, full knowledge and full consent”. Mortal sin is objectively wrong, not subjectively. IOW, it does not depend upon the understanding of the person. If a person commits a venial sin, it does not become mortal just because they thought it was. However, the intention to commit sin is affected by someone who commits a sin even though they believe it is mortal when it is only venial.

A scrupulous person should bring all things to a general confession. However, when this is done, think no more of past sins. For we are told that when you bring every single sin that you can think of to confession - and should you genuinely forget any - then EVERY sin is forgiven. The priest has been given this power by Jesus!! That is what is so amazing about the Sacrament of Reconciliation (I refer to it as Confession).

If you have any doubts, though, and your scrupulosity is still nudging your conscience - then speak to a Spiritual Adviser - although they are really hard to find where I live. God bless.

 

[JRKH]

if a scrupulous person commits what they believe at the time to be a grave sin, which is not in fact a grave sin, but they think it is and commit it anyway. does this constitute mortal sin and thus need to be confessed? (I think it’s generally the case that if a person thought something was grave matter and committed it then it would be regarded as mortal, I could be wrong though).

If a person believes that they committed a mortal sin, they should confess it. If it turns out to not have been - their confessor can advise them so. This is how we learn to properly discern such matters.

Also, what about committing grave matter as a child? for example, if a 7 year old bully decides to bash another boy, clearly he knows its wrong but does it anyway, when he turns 25 he decides to go to confession, should he confess this sin?

Not a lot of info here as to whether the person is raised Catholic or is a convert…but what info is given leads me to believe he is a convert…
I would say yes. If he remembers this act and it is troubling him he should absolutely confess it. I cannot think of any reason to omit it…

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

If a person believes that they committed a mortal sin, they should confess it. If it turns out to not have been - their confessor can advise them so. This is how we learn to properly discern such matters.

Not a lot of info here as to whether the person is raised Catholic or is a convert…but what info is given leads me to believe he is a convert…
I would say yes. If he remembers this act and it is troubling him he should absolutely confess it. I cannot think of any reason to omit it…

Peace
James

A person who is scrupulous can be in a “different boat” than one with a normal conscience. They are often troubled by various unfounded fears and see mortal sin etc where it is not – to various degrees. They need a regular confessor to guide them -and it may be the case that he may advise them not to confess say doubtful things…

So in terms of an answer to this person -he ought to take it up with his regular confessor. And if he does not have one --he ought to get one to assist him with his difficulty with scruples.

 

[JRKH]

A person who is scrupulous can be in a “different boat” than one with a normal conscience. They are often troubled by various unfounded fears and see mortal sin etc where it is not – to various degrees. They need a regular confessor to guide them -and it may be the case that he may advise them not to confess say doubtful things…

So in terms of an answer to this person -he ought to take it up with his regular confessor. And if he does not have one --he ought to get one to assist him with his difficulty with scruples.

Agreed. A regular confessor is imperative for one who suffers scruples. Indeed a regular confessor is advisable for most people…

So - other than for mentioning the “regular confessor angle”, my post still stands. If a person suspects they have committed a mortal sin, they should confess it. This is how we learn…

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

Agreed. A regular confessor is imperative for one who suffers scruples. Indeed a regular confessor is advisable for most people…

So - other than for mentioning the “regular confessor angle”, my post still stands. If a person suspects they have committed a mortal sin, they should confess it. This is how we learn…

Peace
James

If the scrupulous person has a “doubtful sin” and say their confessor has told them not to confess any doubtful sin (it does not sound like this person has been told such) – well then they ought not confess it. But they may discuss it with their confessor.

By the way I will note too for readers…If anyone confesses a doubtful sin --they need by to note that it is doubtful.

 

[JRKH]

If the scrupulous person has a “doubtful sin” and say their confessor has told them not to confess any doubtful sin (it does not sound like this person has been told such) – well then they ought not confess it. But they may discuss it with their confessor.

By the way I will note too for readers…If anyone confesses a doubtful sin --they need by to note that it is doubtful.

Fair enough…

Peace
James

 

[Melkite_Sword]

Not a lot of info here as to whether the person is raised Catholic or is a convert…but what info is given leads me to believe he is a convert…
I would say yes. If he remembers this act and it is troubling him he should absolutely confess it. I cannot think of any reason to omit it…

Peace
James

hmm understood… but then are we obliged to confess all grave matter even if it was commited without full knowledge that it was a mortal sin? I know that mortal sins are necessary, what about simply grave matter that the child didnt know was mortal at the time?

 

[JRKH]

hmm understood… but then are we obliged to confess all grave matter even if it was commited without full knowledge that it was a mortal sin? I know that mortal sins are necessary, what about simply grave matter that the child didnt know was mortal at the time?

For me - the crucial question is whether the act, the remembrance of the act is troublesome to the person. Assuming that we are staying within the context of a person struggling with scruples, it is necessary for this person to accomplish two things.
First to dispose of this matter and find peace - the quickest way is through absolution in confession.
The second matter - and one that Bookcat and I sort of play “tag-team” on is the idea of getting good counsel from one’s confessor.

Now let’s consider the convert who is troubled by this memory. He goes to confession and brings the matter up. Of course it is good to also confess venial sins so there is no problem here. So - In the course of confessing this matter, he asks his confessor about whether it was a mortal sin or not. The confessor provides guidance that is helpful to the penitent in understanding. The priest then gives absolution and the penitent leaves…
Both matters mentioned above are fulfilled. The penitent knows they are forgiven and they also have better information with which to gauge things in the future.

See what I mean?

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

hmm understood… but then are we obliged to confess all grave matter even if it was commited without full knowledge that it was a mortal sin? I know that mortal sins are necessary, what about simply grave matter that the child didnt know was mortal at the time?

One is only obliged to confess all mortal sins (grave sins).

We are not obliged to confess that which was grave matter but due to lack of the needful knowledge or the complete consent was not mortal. Such is by nature venial -if it was a subjective sin at all.

If I say as a little child was shown a lustful picture and I do not realize that it is seriously wrong for me to be looking at that picture – but are say looking out of curiosity – I have not committed a mortal sin and need never mention such in confession later in life.

And a person who struggles with scrupulosity ought to discuss things with their confessor.

Now lets say someone has a “doubtful mortal sin”.

What then?

Well the advice that can be given to one with a normal conscience is to confess it -noting of that it is doubtful.

One who is lax -can be urged to confess it (again noting that one is doubtful).

One who is scrupulous is often recommended to not confess it directly. Ones confessor can direct one. Though certainly it is good to ask the regular confessor to advise one on the nature of things too for formation as noted above.

 

[Bookcat]

For me - the crucial question is whether the act, the remembrance of the act is troublesome to the person.

Little note for readers: what your referring to there is that one who does not have something that was a mortal sin but rather something as was described -that was grave in nature but lacked the needed knowledge for being mortal at that time in the child’s life.

(for if it was an actual mortal sin the crucial thing is to confess it and be restored to true life in Christ)

 

[Bookcat]

hmm understood… but then are we obliged to confess all grave matter even if it was commited without full knowledge that it was a mortal sin? I know that mortal sins are necessary, what about simply grave matter that the child didnt know was mortal at the time?

One is only obliged to confess all mortal sins (grave sins).

We are not obliged to confess that which was grave matter but due to lack of the needful knowledge or the complete consent was not mortal. Such is by nature venial -if it was a subjective sin at all.

If I say as a little child was shown a lustful picture and I do not realize that it is seriously wrong for me to be looking at that picture – but are say looking out of curiosity – I have not committed a mortal sin and need never mention such in confession later in life.

And a person who struggles with scrupulosity ought to discuss things with their confessor.

Now lets say someone has a “doubtful mortal sin”.

What then?

Well the advice that can be given to one with a normal conscience is to confess it -noting of that it is doubtful.

One who is lax -can be urged to confess it (again noting that one is doubtful).

One who is scrupulous is often recommended to not confess it directly. Ones confessor can direct one. What is best for a particular penitent can vary. Though certainly it is good to ask the regular confessor to advise one on the nature of things too for formation as noted above.

 

[JRKH]

Little note for readers: what your referring to there is that one who does not have something that was a mortal sin but rather something as was described -that was grave in nature but lacked the needed knowledge for being mortal at that time in the child’s life.

(for if it was an actual mortal sin the crucial thing is to confess it and be restored to true life in Christ)

Agreed, but I would add that we are not confined to confessing only mortal sins. If something a person has done is troubling them, it is better to bring it up - that is to confess it - and get the matter cleared up.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

Agreed, but I would add that we are not confined to confessing only mortal sins. If something a person has done is troubling them, it is better to bring it up - that is to confess it - and get the matter cleared up.

Peace
James

Yes of course --but I am referring to doubtful sins. And one with scruples can be in a very different boat than one without such annoying flies.

CCC

1458 Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church.59 Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps us form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father’s mercy, we are spurred to be merciful as he is merciful.

 

[Melkite_Sword]

hmm… so is grave matter without full knowledge or full consent (or both) only considered venial sin?