Scrupulosity

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Hey, I’ve been reading lots of threads that I haven’t posted on, and some that I have. I’m seeing a lot of scrupulosity evidenced here. It really seems very unhealthy. People arguing over the fine line bettween mortal and venial sin, how long they have to get to confession, extreme anxiety over God’s mercy, which they seem to pretty much doubt. By these people’s rules, nobody, I mean nobody, is going to Heaven.

I suggest to these folks that you are being a bad witness to our Catholic faith here on these boards. Protestants and other curious eavesdroppers are thinking we’re nuts. Did you know Martin Luther suffered from this and finally, after tormenting himself for years, came up with a whole new theology?

It pains me to see my Catholic brothers and sisters torturing themselves in this way. Also, it’s not healthy, it’s not spiritual, in fact it’s a sign of psychiatic problems, and has nothing to do with loving God. There’s help available, friends…

Are You Scrupulous?
Cardinal urges trust in God’s love to overcome a painful spiritual disorder

Scrupulous Anonymous
 
I agree with you. In fact my wife and I were talking earlier about how some of the most damaging posts on this forum are by other Catholics who either don’t have a grasp on their faith, or are just plain uncharitable and nasty to their fellow Catholics.

Unfortunately, the people who eavesdrop in on this forum, just like the secular media, LOVE to dwell on the 1% bad they see and not the 99% of good that is going on.
 
This really struck me in Cardinal O’Connor’s homily:

“If anyone needs an awareness of the mercy, the gentleness, the love, the forgiveness of Almighty God it is a scrupulous person.”

That’s true of the folks here who may be suffering from scrupulosity, don’t you think? And some may be quite young and just need to learn a few things.
 
I see this got moved to the Spirituality board. Thanks moderator, I wasn’t quite sure where to put it.

Yes, I agree with both the respondents to the thread (since they seem to agree with me… 🙂 )

Yes, there is sometimes a lack of charity here as well, which the moderation staff does a good job of monitoring, I must say. It seems like some of our over-scrupulous posters, however, get carried away with themselves on these forums. There is something almost narcissistic about this problem, it seems. I don’t know what role that Satan plays in mental disorders, or whether they are purely biochemical, but scrupulosity does seem to be a problem in our Catholic faith. As evidenced here, I think it adds fuel to accusations of legalism within the Church.
 
Of course, this conversation is one in general and not one directed at specific posters. Afterall, scrupulosity can affect many a person wanting to please God. How is one to avoid it and simultaneously avoid sin? Good topic, Spiritblows. I’m looking forward to further discussion on it.
 
Catherine Grant:
Of course, this conversation is one in general and not one directed at specific posters. Afterall, scrupulosity can affect many a person wanting to please God. How is one to avoid it and simultaneously avoid sin? Good topic, Spiritblows. I’m looking forward to further discussion on it.
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Yes Catherine Grant, this thread isn’t meant as a means to gossip about anyone in particular here, I agree and hope that noone indulges publically in that. But, I’ve noticed a pattern here on these forums, which prompted this thread. I do think it’s not only hurtful to the sufferer, but it hurts the image of our faith in the eyes of curious readers at these boards.

I will admit, I’ve had my own anxious moments of doubt, but generally my personality isn’t prone to scrupulousity. I understand that feeling of vulnerablity when faced with my own human weakness.
 
This is in no way meant as medical diagnoses or advice to anyone in particular but something that someone with symptoms of scrupulosity should discuss with thier doctor. One of the symptoms of obssesive-compulsive disorder is excessive religious or moral doubt. Another symptom is a need to tell, ask or confess. The link below gives a range of symptoms of OCD.

ocfoundation.org/ocf1010a.htm

As difficult and frustrating as it is to try to reason with those with OCD, and how irratating the behaviors at times can be, if a person with scrupulosity is suffering from OCD then there is little they do to control their behaviors without proper treatment. From what I was reading on the above site negative comments or criticism can actually make the symptoms worse.
 
I’ve noticed the same thing but I used a different phrase when discussing this with my husband tonight… I told him it seemed there were some that seemed to be so pious that they were casting stones at every person, especially if someone did something wrong. He’s not Catholic and I’m afraid it’s times like this that I feel he’s silently feeling and thinking “SEE, that’s why I think religions are not good!” I do show him and discuss with him often of the good I’ve seen on these boards, things I’ve learned, some people I’ve “met”, etc. So I hope that helps somewhere.

Anyway… so you think confession would be something good to help a person with scrupulosity?
 
From what I’ve read, the scrupulous are advised to find a good confessor and obey him totally. Priests are trained to deal with this illness. They will tell the sufferer to limit their confessions, and the scrupulous person must obey them.

Martin Luther was obsessed with his sins, and felt the need to confess more than once a day. Is it any surprise that he came up with salvations by faith alone as a salve for his tormented mind?
 
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spiritblows:
From what I’ve read, the scrupulous are advised to find a good confessor and obey him totally. Priests are trained to deal with this illness. They will tell the sufferer to limit their confessions, and the scrupulous person must obey them.

Martin Luther was obsessed with his sins, and felt the need to confess more than once a day. Is it any surprise that he came up with salvations by faith alone as a salve for his tormented mind?
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Wow… I just learned something!!! Thank you!

I know that I’ve been scrupulous in some of my confessions. I know that you are absolved for “sins not remembered” but I’m under the mindset that if I remember them right before the next confession, then it must be something on my heart that needs to come out. I’m also one that makes a list while doing the examination of conscious before confession so I don’t forget some things. Would this be an example of scrupulosity?

Sorry to sound so stupid… but I’ve heard this word so many times and I know it comes from scrupules, scrupulous, etc… nitpick basically, but I never really understood it until now. :o
 
Dear Tam,
I think that there is a whole spectrum from extreme to mild in this illness. There’s nothing wrong with being throrough and meticulous. We all have different things that provoke anxiety, also. For me it’s walking into a room full of people that I don’t know. I suppose that’s a social anxiety of some kind.

I think that as long as you are functioning reasonably well, you’re okay.
 
I at times have been scrupulous so I bought a book-
Understanding scrupulosity by Thomas M Santa C.Ss.R

10 Commandments for the scupulous person - from the book.
  1. You shall not repeat a sin in confession when it has been confessed in a previous confession, even when there is a doubt that it was confessed or a doubt that it was confessed in a sufficiently adequate and complete way.
2.You shall not confess doubtful sins in confession, but only sins that are clear and certain.

3.You shall not repeat your penance after confession or any of the words of your penance because you feel or think that you had distractions or may not have said the words properly.

4.You shall not worry about breaking your fast before receiving communion, unless you actually put food or drink in your mouth and swallow it in the same way that a person does when eating a meal.
  1. You shall not hesitate to look at any crucifix or at any statue in church or at home or anywhere else because you may get bad thoughts in your mind and imagination. If such thoughts occur, they carry no sin whatever.
  2. You shall not consider yourself guilty of bad thoughts, desires, or feelings, unless you can honestly swear before the all-truthful God that you remember clearly and certainly consenting to them.
  3. You shall not disobey your confessor when he tells you never to make another general confession of past sins already confessed.
  4. You shall believe and act accordingly, so that whatever you are in doubt as to whether or not you are obliged to do or not to do something, you can take it for certain that you are not obligated.
  5. If, before you perform or omit an act, you are doubtful whether or not it is sinful for you, you shall assume as certain that it is not sinful for you, you shall assume for certain that it is not sinful and shall proceed to act without any dread of sin whatsoever.
  6. You shall put your trust in Jesus Christ, knowing that he loves you as only God can love, and that he will never allow you to lose your soul.
A helpful prayer for the scrupulous-
I behold the Christ in you.
I place you lovingly in the care of the Father.
I release you from all anxiety and concern.
I see you as God sees you, a spiritual person,
created in the image of God,
endowed with qualities and abilities that make you needed,
and important- not only to me but also to God and His plan.
I believe that you have the understanding you need to choose life.
I bless you.
I have faith in you.
I behold Jesus in you. Author unknown.

I will post the 10 commandments for peace of mind - next.
 
10 Commandments for peace of mind.
  1. Remember that God honours your decision. You may seek information about the laws of God, but the application of Gods laws to your own situation is your responsibility and yours alone. The final decision is yours to make.
  2. You must learn to listen. Listen intently while your confessor or spiritual director is speaking to you, and try to absorb what they are saying. Do not allow your mind to race ahead uncontrolled, thinking up the next question while you are still waiting for the answer to your first question.
  3. Nothing has to be done NOW. Leave your question or problem until you feel you are able to ask it or tackle it without becoming disturbed or anxious. In the meantime, act on the knowledge you already possess, no matter what it looks or sounds like.
  4. See a psychiatrist if you think you need one. Sometimes scrupulosity is only a passing phase, but sometimes it is part of a basic personality pattern, a symptom and manifestation that needs to be professionally attended to.
5.Your cure lies in recognising your scruples for what they are and in training your will to ignore them.
  1. You must aim for peace of mind. Banish anything from your mind that disturbs you. This is how you can train your will. You will learn later on that scruples come back with force when you are upset. Use a sandstorm as a comparison: You cannot see where you are going until the sand settles. If you do proceed during the storm, you will only be going around in circles and will accomplish nothing.
  2. If you don’t know what you should do, do what you want. If you don’t know immediately ( that is, without any debate) whether an action is against the law of God or not, then proceed with your decision and don’t give it another thought. You cannot commit a sin unless you have full knowledge that it is wrong at the moment you are doing it.
  3. God judges a person according to his or her intention; that is, a person could be doing something wrong, but if the person thinks that they are right, their intention is pure and they are pleasing God.
  4. Stay within your limits. Do what you can do today without strain. Use as a comparison a person who is beginning a physical fitness program. If every day they stay withinn their limits, they soon build a strong and healthy body. If, however, they go beyond their limits, they risk injury and defeat their own purpose.
  5. A scrupulous person who has great difficulty in going to confession is automatically dispensed from this obligation. If you are absolutely certain you committed a mortal sin and have to go, restrict yourself to a generic confession and tell the priest what you are doing. A generic confession gives no details; it is only necessary to say that you have sinned seriously.
Some words of wisdom.
When God sends us crosses, let us thank him, since it is a sign that God means to pardon all our sins.
 
Hello! I hope nobody is judging a person and by way of that, insisting they go to confession right away. That’s not right, for sure.

Let me explain when I don’t think this is the case:

There are people who are confused because of a damaged spirit (mental illness, abuse). Some people, myself included, have encouraged another to go to confession precisely because the person might be tempted to beat themselves up about sin for too long, wondering how culpable they are, trying to weigh every sin and categorize it by severity.

This is not yet scrupulosity in the beginning; this is a damaged spirit trying to discern where discernment is made much trickier for them. They need a priest to help protect them from becoming scrupulous as well.

It’s unlikely that these people never consent to sin, but it can be that they aren’t culpable, or as culpable, in some situations. They can’t be assured that if they examine their conscience the same way you might, with a little print-out form with checkboxes, that what they need to confess will come as easily for them as it does for healthier, generally happier people.

For any given sin–widely known to involve grave matter–they know they consented to some, didn’t consent to others, and for yet others, they just aren’t sure to what extent they consented to the sin or to what extent they’re being tempted to make excuses. I’m not talking about worrying about Hell because you stole a pen from the office. I’m talking about grave matter where a damaged spirit knows something is wrong and needs some discernment and counsel from a trusted priest, and forgiveness if it turns out that they do need it for some things.

There is a bad kind of guilt that can easily creep into these situations, which is the discouraging kind of guilt, not the kind of guilt God gives us. If anyone needs to talk to a priest, these people do. They won’t be able to pick themselves back up as long as they’re wasting so much time worrying and feeling bad.

It’s easier for these people to worry and have trouble with discernment than healthy folks, and you must understand that. This is a compounded struggle with discernment unique to their situation in which their souls need some extra care. Confession is a place for them to heal and be relieved by their guilt if they are guilty, just like for the rest of us, not a sentence to feel even guiltier. Their immediate need is to pick themselves back up and stop wasting time ruminating over what they have done, when in some situations they might simply have to wait for years before they can understand what really happened.

I don’t see that as having anything to do with scrupulosity at all. I see that as an immediate step towards healing that is much better than worrying and getting discouraged.
 
John Russel, thanks for those. Are the 10 rules for *just *for scrupulous people? The thing is, I personally know I do not do enough good works. I know it; I fall into sloth quite easily. I know that sins of omission do exist and that I need to be careful of them. We can’t deny that sins of omission really do exist. We also can’t deny that we’re experts at making excuses for ourselves when we don’t feel like doing something we should. We trick ourselves very easily to try to remove guilt that we should feel.

I’m not saying any of this to be smart or to make it worse for scrupulous people–I am really interested in people’s (name removed by moderator)ut!

As to this:“7. If you don’t know what you should do, do what you want. If you don’t know immediately ( that is, without any debate) whether an action is against the law of God or not, then proceed with your decision and don’t give it another thought. You cannot commit a sin unless you have full knowledge that it is wrong at the moment you are doing it.”
I think I’d want to make a distinction between when it’s possible to know whether something’s a sin and people just don’t care to find out, and those times when you don’t have time to find out and must act quickly on the knowledge you have, with the best intentions (#8). What we’d be dealing with here are the moral theological concepts of *vincible ignorance *and invincible ignorance. See here:
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907chap.asp
Invincible ignorance removes one’s culpability for a materially sinful act, whether one of omission or commission (CCC 1793). Vincible ignorance may affect one’s culpability for a sinful act, depending on the kind of vincibility. If some insufficient diligence was shown toward finding the answer, then the ignorance is termed merely vincible. If little or no diligence was shown, the ignorance is termed *crass *or supine. If one deliberately fostered the ignorance then it is termed *affected *or studied.
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If vincible ignorance is merely vincible, crass, or supine, it diminishes culpability for the sinful act relative to the degree of diligence that was shown. If a vincibly ignorant person showed*almost *reasonable diligence, most of his imputability for the sin could be removed. If he was crassly ignorant, having shown little or no diligence compared to what was reasonable, little or none of his imputability would be removed.
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Karen10:
John Russel, thanks for those. Are the 10 rules for *just *for scrupulous people? The thing is, I personally know I do not do enough good works. I know it; I fall into sloth quite easily. I know that sins of omission do exist and that I need to be careful of them. We can’t deny that sins of omission really do exist. We also can’t deny that we’re experts at making excuses for ourselves when we don’t feel like doing something we should. We trick ourselves very easily to try to remove guilt that we should feel.

I’m not saying any of this to be smart or to make it worse for scrupulous people–I am really interested in people’s (name removed by moderator)ut!

The rules are designed for people with scruples. Others may use them too - though.

As to this:“7. If you don’t know what you should do, do what you want. If you don’t know immediately ( that is, without any debate) whether an action is against the law of God or not, then proceed with your decision and don’t give it another thought. You cannot commit a sin unless you have full knowledge that it is wrong at the moment you are doing it.”

We all have an obligation to educate ourselves and inform our consciences. But even Saints can and have had doubts at times. Here is the explaination on this point from the book- I hope it helps-

St Alphonsus coined the phrase,“Love God and do what you please.” In other words, a person who loves God would never deliberately put himself or herself into a position by which they would harm their relationship with the Lord in a serious matter. The last thing in the world that a person who loves God would do is choose anything or anyone that would risk their primary relationship with God. That being said and understood as truth, St Alphonsus felt very confident in his advice that people who loved God could do as they pleased. Scrupulous people love God. Scrupulous people would never choose anyone or anything who would risk their primary relationship with the Lord. Scrupulous people are concerned above all with loving God. They do not want to freely offend Godin even the smallest matter. That being said and understood as truth, I will join St Alphonsus and Fr Miller in stating, with great confidence, that since you love God, do what you want.

I think I’d want to make a distinction between when it’s possible to know whether something’s a sin and people just don’t care to find out, and those times when you don’t have time to find out and must act quickly on the knowledge you have, with the best intentions (#8). What we’d be dealing with here are the moral theological concepts of *vincible ignorance *and invincible ignorance. See here:

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907chap.asp
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I will put the explaination of #8 in my next post - now.
 
I notice there are also a couple of “I am afraid to go to confession” threads active, and I think or I observe that both these problems have the same root cause, failure to fully believe in and accept God’s mercy, and failure to believe ultimately in the efficacy of the sacraments. What we all must do is refrain from stating our own opinions or experience or feelings as dogmatic truth, and from giving spiritual direction on line to people we don’t even know. Anyone suffering from this torment of scrupulosity must be under the care and direction of one confessor, and should not be discussing their spiritual lives with others, especially in an anonymous setting like this.
 
Hi Karen10,

Here is the explaination of point # 8 from the commandments of peace.

I once knew a religious Sister who was very concerned wiith" keeping the right intention." At first, I had no idea what she was talking about, but later, as our relationship grew, I understood her concern: She wanted to make sure that all of her choices and actions were performed for the glory of God and for no other reason. What a beautiful way of life! I believe that those who struggle with scrupulosity are blessed with the grace of desiring, above all else," to keep the right intention." In other words, I believe that people who suffer from scrupulosity desire that all of their actions and choices are performed in order to give glory and honour to God. There is reason to rejoice here. However, at the same time, there is also reason for concern. Because we desire to please God above all else, and we doubt our ability to do so, instead of enjoying the peace of mind that should come in trying to accomplish God’s will, we are cursed with the guilt and anxiety of"feeling that we just don’t measure up." A certain freedom can be enjoyed if we daily praactise believing in ourselves and in our deepest intentions. A simple prayer," God help me to believe that I love you, that I desire you, and that I remain faithful to you, even in those moments when I doubt or mistrust," is often a helpful prayer. Pray it often, especially in moments of doubt and temptation.
 
A big thank you to John Russell! That’s a big help.

To everybody else, I hope I’m not wearing out my welcome :o but I was wondering something else. Is it at all possible that some people who are at other stages of their spiritual development and have a heightened awareness of sin, and they are being mistaken for scrupulous people?

They might not be discouraged at all–it’s discouragement that most clearly indicates scrupulosity. We might think they are, using their hatred for sin as the only indication, and projecting OUR discouragement at what they tell us as belonging to them.

I guess their insights could unintentionally discourage others who don’t fully understand. Reading saints’ books can get discouraging too, until you start to get the whole picture of what they’re saying and why they were not discouraged, themselves. For the first third of St. Faustina’s book, I thought, “Boy, she must be scrupulous or something.” I mean it’s heavy. She goes on and on about what a miserable creature she is and wants to mortify herself frequently. But she wasn’t scrupulous. She wasn’t discouraged and she trusted in God’s mercy completely. It took a while for me to figure her out because she was at a level so far past my own. But through her works, I finally think I understand what it means to trust in God’s mercy without becoming presumptuous about it. I tend to think that if St. Faustina would post here, she’d be accused of scrupulosity by some people who didn’t have the whole picture, though, because she fully acknowledged herself as a miserable creature and had a much deeper hatred for sin than most of us non-saints. She just didn’t get discouraged by it, and was in love with God and His mercy, fully trusting in it. To me these were almost irreconcilable concepts until I’d meditated on it for several months.
 
John Russell Jr:
Hi Karen10,

Here is the explaination of point # 8 from the commandments of peace.

I once knew a religious Sister who was very concerned wiith" keeping the right intention." At first, I had no idea what she was talking about, but later, as our relationship grew, I understood her concern: She wanted to make sure that all of her choices and actions were performed for the glory of God and for no other reason. What a beautiful way of life! I believe that those who struggle with scrupulosity are blessed with the grace of desiring, above all else," to keep the right intention." In other words, I believe that people who suffer from scrupulosity desire that all of their actions and choices are performed in order to give glory and honour to God. There is reason to rejoice here. However, at the same time, there is also reason for concern. Because we desire to please God above all else, and we doubt our ability to do so, instead of enjoying the peace of mind that should come in trying to accomplish God’s will, we are cursed with the guilt and anxiety of"feeling that we just don’t measure up." A certain freedom can be enjoyed if we daily praactise believing in ourselves and in our deepest intentions. A simple prayer," God help me to believe that I love you, that I desire you, and that I remain faithful to you, even in those moments when I doubt or mistrust," is often a helpful prayer. Pray it often, especially in moments of doubt and temptation.
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That is AWESOME. Yes, do everything for the glory of God. Even menial chores! That is my understanding of what is called living a “prayerful life”. And the advice to battle scruples is extremely helpful. I’m so glad you posted it. Well said. :amen:
 
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