Scrupulous Dilema: Are these thoughts sinful?

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To start off, i am scrupulous and am familiar with the scrupulous anonymous news letter, definition of mortal sin and spiritual direction.

however, i am having a terrible time telling the difference between sin and temptation and cannot seem to last a week without doubting if i am in a state of grace and it’s very very frustrating and drainig.

about two years ago, my parish had two priest that immensly helped me improve and really seemed to understand my condition. since then, they have moved and my present parish priest, as well as two others from a nearby parish, don’t seem to understand my scupulosity which makes spiritual direction and confession difficult. Before i was told to confess only that which i was SURE was a sin. Now i am told to come with confidence to the confessional if i am in doubt, which would be ok if it didnt have to be everyday:blush:

my sins, or not sins, consist mainly of me examining my thoughts to see if i sinned in the first place:shrug:

ex: an impure thought flashes in my mind, i know that i did not consent it but i get so anxious that i decide to examine my thoughts and feelings at that moment to see if i sinned, thus summoning the impure thought/feeling for examination. when i do, i reason that since i consented to having the impure thought again (with the sole intention of determining sin or not) i therefore sinned. all this mental turmoil happens in seconds and before i know it imy heart sinks and i’m off the confessional again and again:(

i relate this to my confessors but they don’t really seem to understand so i assume i sinned, which i very well may have.

so my question: is summoning sinful thoughts/feeling for examination a sin?

i find examinign my conscience extremely difficult because of this and it’s becoming a problem. I don’t know wether to obey the advice of my current confessors who don’t seen to understand, or obey my previous confessors who did seem to understand but are no longer here.

:shrug:rereading i realize how scrupulous i sound, so any insight would be appreciated:)
 
S_V7 said:
so my question: is summoning sinful thoughts/feeling for examination a sin?
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Probably not sinful, but certainly unwise and unnecessary. You said in the earlier paragraph that you know you did not consent. This is enough for you to know you did not sin. Put aside the anxiety and don’t go there again.

The reason it is unwise is NOT because it might be a sin to think the impure thought again, but that you are driving yourself nuts. Your loving Heavenly Father does not want that for you or expect it.

Ask yourself this: Have you EVER deliberately consented to an impure thought? I’ll bet you haven’t. Your whole attitude is to be horrified at them. You can pretty much deduce from this that your momentary thoughts are temptations, not sins.

It sounds as if your current priests are very kind but uninformed about dealing with scruples. Perhaps you could share the Scrupulous Anonymous information with them in a respectful way. Perhaps you could print some of it and say, “Father, I found this to be helpful in dealing with my scruples. Have you seen it before? Would you like this copy?”

Take a breath. Try to relax! 🙂

Betsy
 
Dear friend in Christ,

You’re going to get lots (I hope) of wonderful theological insights from various members on this site. Gotta love the web!

However, you sound a bit like my life-long dear friend who struggles with serious anxiety issues. I’m in no way any kind of health professional, but I don’t think it takes a degree to make a friendly recommendation: My friend, have you tried to find a serious Catholic who is also a licensed counselor/therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist? Someone like that may be able to offer you additional help that could only enhance the counsel of a good spiritual director/confessor.

I am NOT saying this to insult you in any way. However, your words remind me very much of the fixation and anxiety-related tendencies of my friend of many years, and I’ve watched her grow immensely with the help of a really good therapist. With the right person helping you, and perhaps a carefully prescribed medication, you may breathe a bit easier and perhaps be better able to trust in the infinite mercy of our all-loving God who knows your obviously contrite heart. The heart of Christ is an ocean of mercy!

May God continue to bless you, and may Our Lady always protect you.

In Christ,
Catherine
 
I’m not a priest so run what I say by a priest to make sure it is accurate. I think I remember reading that in order for an impure thought to be mortally sinful you would have to evoke it for the sole reason of experiencing sexual pleasure (in thought or bodily). You weren’t trying to seek sexual pleasure at all - you were just trying to examine your conscience - so based on what I thought I read - you didn’t commit a mortal sin.

If you can’t find a priest who understands scrupulosity go by what Fr. Thomas Santa says in his book Understanding Scrupulosityand go also by what the Redemptorists Fathers say in their Scrupulous Anonymous Newsletter. If you are sure that you are scrupulous you can go by these sources, but still seek out a good spiritual director and/or confessor who understands scrupulosity. It’s always better to have a spiritual director and confessor. Ask the Chancery or the dean in your diocese to recommend a priest who understands scrupulosity.

I used to suffer from scrupulosity really bad, but it has past for the most part with the help of the sources I mentioned and with the help of good priests who understand things. You’ll be in my prayer. Peace!
 
S_V7 said:
about two years ago, my parish had two priest that immensly helped me improve and really seemed to understand my condition. since then, they have moved and my present parish priest, as well as two others from a nearby parish, don’t seem to understand my scupulosity which makes spiritual direction and confession difficult. Before i was told to confess only that which i was SURE was a sin. Now i am told to come with confidence to the confessional if i am in doubt, which would be ok if it didnt have to be everyday:blush:
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I think you know the answer here. You had two priests who understood your condition, and you know that following their advice helped you. Now you follow the advice of a priest who you know doesn’t understand your condition and isn’t helping you. You know that by following the new priest’s advice rather than the good advice you got from your previous confessor, you are making your condition worse, and yet you persist in it. Stop. That sounds harsh, and I know from experience as an anxious and somewhat scrupulous person that it’s easier said than done.

Interpret your new priest’s advice in the light of what you already KNOW and have learned from working with the old priest. If you are in doubt, your confessor is telling you, you MAY come to the confessional. There’s no sin in coming to the confessional and making a confession of devotion, even if you don’t have any real sins to confess. On the other hand, you also know yourself, as a scrupulous person, that coming to the confessional every day isn’t helping you. Therefore, even though they say ‘approach with confidence’, that doesn’t give you an excuse to approach with fear. It doesn’t give you an excuse to feed your condition, to feed your addiction. Approach when you can do so with confidence and sincerity, not just because you may. Or do you want to use your new priest’s advice as an excuse to persist in your scrupulosity? Again, that may sound harsh, but it’s true that sometimes we get so attached to our fear that it’s hard to let it go.

To leave you on a positive note, I wish my thought-life was as pure as yours. I genuinely think that by the sound of it you are extremely careful. Give yourself a break. You deserve to know God’s peace.
 
ex: an impure thought flashes in my mind, i know that i did not consent it but i get so anxious that i decide to examine my thoughts and feelings at that moment to see if i sinned, thus summoning the impure thought/feeling for examination. when i do, i reason that since i consented to having the impure thought again (with the sole intention of determining sin or not) i therefore sinned. all this mental turmoil happens in seconds and before i know it imy heart sinks and i’m off the confessional again and again
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This sounds a lot like me. I’m pretty scrupulous myself, although I used to be worse (there once was a time when I couldn’t get through a single prayer because I would be afraid of having an impure thought, and because I was afraid of it I would cause one). I can’t go any longer than 3 days without thinking I’ve committed some kind of mortal sin 😦 But I am making progress. It’s a tough thing to deal with. It really is mental torture.

But that’s what the devil wants. He wants you to feel burdened. Realizing that he’s trying to frustrate you and take away your trust in God is very helpful.

I’ll keep you in my prayers
 
Definitely a sin, fast for one week and chastise yourself followed by a 3-hour-confession to be truly repentant of your devious behaviour.
 
A priest told our RCIA class several years back that all temptations are to be fought against, except temptations against Faith and Sexual Morality. Those are to be fled in great haste. Fighting them just digs the hole deeper.
 
GloriusMaximus said:
Definitely a sin, fast for one week and chastise yourself followed by a 3-hour-confession to be truly repentant of your devious behaviour.
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This attempt at humor is not at all helpful for those seriously burdened by scruples. At the very least, a smiley would convey that you are not serious.
Joe_Kelley said:
A priest told our RCIA class several years back that all temptations are to be fought against, except temptations against Faith and Sexual Morality. Those are to be fled in great haste. Fighting them just digs the hole deeper.
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Best advice I’ve read in a long time!

Betsy
 
baltobetsy said:
This attempt at humor is not at all helpful for those seriously burdened by scruples. At the very least, a smiley would convey that you are not serious.
Best advice I’ve read in a long time!

Betsy
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Definitely a sin, fast for one week and chastise yourself followed by a 3-hour-confession to be truly repentant of your devious behaviour. :rolleyes:

Better?
 
GloriusMaximus said:
Definitely a sin, fast for one week and chastise yourself followed by a 3-hour-confession to be truly repentant of your devious behaviour.
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May the Lord have mercy on your perverse sense of humor. Saying something like your quote above to a scrupulous person is like throwing gasoline on someone whose clothes are burning. Think before you engage your sense of humor.😦
 
rwoehmke said:
May the Lord have mercy on your perverse sense of humor. Saying something like your quote above to a scrupulous person is like throwing gasoline on someone whose clothes are burning. Think before you engage your sense of humor.😦
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No.
 
GloriusMaximus said:
Definitely a sin, fast for one week and chastise yourself followed by a 3-hour-confession to be truly repentant of your devious behaviour. :rolleyes:

Better?
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Either you have obviously ZERO understanding of the immense suffering someone with scrupulosity goes through, or you are very insensitive to those that bear this cross (myself included). Saying something like this could cause incredible feelings of anxiety, guilt and depression for the person who began this thread.

It’d be charitable and appreciated by all of us if you stopped trolling around various threads vomiting out random, unhelpful, sarcastic and hurtful posts.

God bless you, friend
 
Thoughts and feelings are not sinful. Only actions can be bad or good. (sinful or not sinful)
 
Trunicate09 said:
Thoughts and feelings are not sinful. Only actions can be bad or good. (sinful or not sinful)
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OK, in that case, I hate you and hope you suffer a protracted, painful and humiliating death as soon as possible.

No, not really. In fact, welcome to Catholic Answers.

But seriously, what you said is not Catholic teaching. Does my “wish” for you make you feel as if I sinned against you? It would me.

Betsy
 
baltobetsy said:
OK, in that case, I hate you and hope you suffer a protracted, painful and humiliating death as soon as possible.

No, not really. In fact, welcome to Catholic Answers.

But seriously, what you said is not Catholic teaching. Does my “wish” for you make you feel as if I sinned against you? It would me.

Betsy
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Betsy, I believe what the poster is trying to say is that there is a difference between an act of will and the thoughts that pop unwilled into our heads. Your wishing someone ill is an action, as choosing to stare at an immodestly dressed woman is an action, and therefore the proper substance of moral judgments. On the other hand merely noticing that a woman is immodestly dressed or having a nasty thought about someone pop into your head uninvited is not sinful besause it doesnt involve the will, it is something that happens to you, not something you choose to do. That is perfectly compatible with what I understand of Catholic teaching, and interprets the previous post more charitably. I hope that is helpful.
 
As you not only refuse to yield to the thought but outright reject it, I should say you are doing just fine without worrying about it. Remember Jesus is always looking for ways to save us. He isn’t sitting there with a ledger weighing each sin versus each good deed. Be joyful and joyous in your prayers to Christ. 🙂
 
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