SDA: Christ is actually Michael the archangel?

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Read this first!

According to the SDA this is what they believe about the Son of God. They do not say so outright on their official webpage however.
  1. The Son:
    God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God’s power and was attested as God’s promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)
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Fundamental beliefs of the SDA from Adventist.org

This makes Jesus a created being…an angel…and so denies His diety. No Christians have believed this…
 
“Michael the Archangel” is a title, that in no way denigrates Jesus to the status of a created being. The word “angel” simply means “messenger”, and “Arch” means “foremost” or “primary”. Is not Jesus Christ the foremost or primary messenger of the Gospel? Yes, He is, but He is NOT a created being.

There are many pre-incarnation appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament, which are well recognized, which are referred to as Christophanies, and there the title used is “angel of the Lord”.
See Anti-Catholic link disabled. PM poster for it if you wish.
 
Very nice work Church Militant!

It’s great people are showing flaws in SDA doctrine.

I myself have frequent discussion with them, and I hear this kind of stuff as well.

👍

Andrew
 
Let’s look at the phrase angel of the LORD in the story of Moses and the burning bush-
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Exo 3:2 And the *angel of the LORD* appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Now in verses four and six, who is identified as being in the bush?-
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Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, *I am* the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Notice that the angel (messenger) of verse 2 is really none other than God Himself. This is confirmed in the New Testament-
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Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an *angel of the Lord* in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
Now note the following-
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Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, *I AM* THAT *I AM*: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, *I AM* hath sent me unto you.
When asked what His name is, the God of the patriarchs of the Old Testament replies I AM. Now look again in the New Testament-
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Acts 7:32 Saying, *I am* the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, *I am*.
Jesus Christ had just identified Himself as the One who is the God of the Old Testament patriarchs, who was present in the burning bush speaking to Moses. Just for extra measure-
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John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, *I am* he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, *I am* he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Jesus Christ again makes it clear He is the I am. Merely speaking the words made those present fall over. So the angel of the Lord and Jesus are identical to, and synonymous with, the I am that met Moses at the burning bush.
 
The SDA’s say they believe in things like the Trinity and divinity of Christ. But they avoid the reality that they get their doctrine from the Catholic Church. Most of them have no idea how dependent they are on us.
 
Let’s look at the phrase angel of the LORD in the story of Moses and the burning bush-
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Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
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Now in verses four and six, who is identified as being in the bush?-
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Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
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Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
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Notice that the angel (messenger) of verse 2 is really none other than God Himself. This is confirmed in the New Testament-
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Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
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Now note the following-
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Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
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When asked what His name is, the God of the patriarchs of the Old Testament replies I AM. Now look again in the New Testament-
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Acts 7:32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
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John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
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Jesus Christ had just identified Himself as the One who is the God of the Old Testament patriarchs, who was present in the burning bush speaking to Moses. Just for extra measure-
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John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
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Jesus Christ again makes it clear He is the I am. Merely speaking the words made those present fall over. So the angel of the Lord and Jesus are identical to, and synonymous with, the I am that met Moses at the burning bush.
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Hmm…I bet you can’t cite one primary source from the writings of the early church where they say that they believed any such thing. This is nothing more than the twisted misinterpretation of you and your denomination. The context of these passages and the context of the whole rest of the Word of God do not support this at all. None of the early church fathers ever wrote anything like this.

Pax vobiscum.
 
I think there’s another group who thinks Jesus is also Michael the archangel–isn’t that the Mormons? Anyway, another group worth looking into, if only because of their strange notion: the Iglesia ni Christo (Filipino for Church of Christ, but in no way affiliated to a denomination of the same name) alleges that its founder, Felix Manalo, is the true savior and an angel of God: pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222868&page=5&pp=40 This group also claims that Jesus is just another messenger equal, or really inferior to, the rank of Manalo…well, sort of connects to this issue about angels anyway…
 
Some SDAs say that Irenaeus supports them because he says that it was Christ speaking from the burning bush.
Adversus Haereses (Book IV, Chapter 10)
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The Old Testament Scriptures, and those written by Moses in particular, do everywhere make mention of the Son of God, and foretell his Advent and Passion. From this fact it follows that they were inspired by one and the same God.
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  1. Wherefore also John does appropriately relate that the Lord said to the Jews: “Ye search the Scriptures, in which ye think ye have eternal life; these are they which testify of me. And ye are not willing to come unto Me, that ye may have life.” How therefore did the Scriptures testify of Him, unless they were from one and the same Father, instructing men beforehand as to the advent of His Son, and foretelling the salvation brought in by Him? “For if ye had believed Moses, ye would also have believed Me; for he wrote of Me;” [saying this,] no doubt, because the Son of God is implanted everywhere throughout his writings: at one time, indeed, speaking with Abraham, when about to eat with him; at another time with Noah, giving to him the dimensions [of the ark]; at another; inquiring after Adam; at another, bringing down judgment upon the Sodomites; and again, when He becomes visible, and directs Jacob on his journey, and speaks with Moses from the bush. And it would be endless to recount [the occasions] upon which the Son of God is shown forth by Moses. Of the day of His passion, too, he was not ignorant; but foretold Him, after a figurative manner, by the name given to the passover; and at that very festival, which had been proclaimed such a long time previously by Moses, did our Lord suffer, thus fulfilling the passover. And he did not describe the day only, but the place also, and the time of day at which the sufferings ceased, and the sign of the setting of the sun, saying: “Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any other of thy cities which the LORD God gives thee; but in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose that His name be called on there, thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, towards the setting of the sun.”
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  1. And already he had also declared His advent, saying, “There shall not fail a chief in Judah, nor a leader from his loins, until He come for whom it is laid up, and He is the hope of the nations; binding His foal to the vine, and His ***'s colt to the creeping ivy. He shall wash His stole in wine, and His upper garment in the blood of the grape; His eyes shall be more joyous than wine, and His teeth whiter than milk.” For, let those who have the reputation of investigating everything, inquire at what time a prince and leader failed out of Judah, and who is the hope of the nations, who also is the vine, what was the ***'s colt [referred to as] His, what the clothing, and what the eyes, what the teeth, and what the wine, and thus let them investigate every one of the points mentioned; and they shall find that there was none other announced than our Lord, Christ Jesus. Wherefore Moses, when chiding the ingratitude of the people, said, “Ye infatuated people, and unwise, do ye thus requite the LORD?” And again, he indicates that He who from the beginning founded and created them, the Word, who also redeems and vivifies us in the last times, is shown as hanging on the tree, and they will not believe on Him. For he says, “And thy life shall be hanging before thine eyes, and thou wilt not believe thy life.” And again, “Has not this same one thy Father owned thee, and made thee, and created thee?”
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But do you see anything in there that supports the case that they are trying to make here?

Here’s the passage from Exodus 3 that they refer to…
1 Now Moses fed the sheep of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Madian: and he drove the flock to the inner parts of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, Horeb. 2 And the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he saw that the bush was on fire and was not burnt. 3 And Moses said: I will go and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he went forward to see, he called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said: Moses, Moses. And he answered: Here I am. 5 And he said: Come not nigh hither, put off the shoes from thy feet: for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
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.but even if this was Our Lord, which I have no problem with that because John 1 tells us that the Word was in the beginning with God and that He was God. that pre-existence is no problem since we believe that God has always existed.

However, this in no way supports the idea that Michael the archangel, who is named as a completely seperate person and a created being, was Christ.

That notion is just heresy.
Pax vobiscum,
 
ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA also says it was the Saviour who spoke from the burning bush:

“The Saviour has many tones of voice, and many methods for the salvation of men; by threatening He admonishes, by upbraiding He converts, by bewailing He pities, by the voice of song He cheers. He spake by the burning bush, for the men of that day needed signs and wonders.”

See: newadvent.org/fathers/020801.htm
 
Exo 3:2 [KJV] And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Exo 3:2 [DR] And the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he saw that the bush was on fire and was not burnt.

Notice that the Douay Rheims deletes “angel of” from its translation.
The word IS there in the Hebrew text. It effectively acknowledges this in the footnote for verse 2 in the Challoner DR edition of 1899, where it claims an angel was speaking, not the Lord.
 
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Milliardo:
I think there’s another group who thinks Jesus is also Michael the archangel–isn’t that the Mormons? Anyway, another group worth looking into, if only because of their strange notion: the Iglesia ni Christo (Filipino for Church of Christ, but in no way affiliated to a denomination of the same name) alleges that its founder, Felix Manalo, is the true savior and an angel of God: pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222868&page=5&pp=40 This group also claims that Jesus is just another messenger equal, or really inferior to, the rank of Manalo…well, sort of connects to this issue about angels anyway…
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I believe the Mormons teach that Satan is Jesus’ brother and the JW teach that Jesus really is Michael the Archangel. But to be honest, I really cannot keep up with all these strange beliefs other sects are teaching as tenets of their churches. So, if this is not so, please correct me.
 
Exodus 3:2 (New American Bible)
There an angel of the LORD appeared to him in fire flaming out of a bush. As he looked on, he was surprised to see that the bush, though on fire, was not consumed.
3 So Moses decided, “I must go over to look at this remarkable sight, and see why the bush is not burned.”
4 When the LORD saw him coming over to look at it more closely, God called out to him from the bush, “Moses! Moses!” He answered, “Here I am.”
5 God said, "Come no nearer! Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.

This translation makes it clear that though it was the angel that Moses saw in the burning bush, (and later mistook for the face of God, since we know from later passages that no one beholds the face of God and lives…) it was God that spoke to him.

Please note the footnote here that sheds some very good light on this:
2 [2] An angel of the LORD: the visual form under which God appeared and spoke to men is referred to indifferently in some Old Testament texts either as God’s angel or as God himself. Cf Genesis 16:7, 13; Exodus 14:19, 24, 25; Numbers 22:22-35; Jdgs 6,11-18.

In the references listed I find nothing that would indicate that Michael the archangel became (or was) Jesus, and nothing that I can find in the writings of the ECF supports their assertion either., though some SDAs use this from
ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA
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“The Saviour has many tones of voice, and many methods for the salvation of men; by threatening He admonishes, by upbraiding He converts, by bewailing He pities, by the voice of song He cheers. He spake by the burning bush, for the men of that day needed signs and wonders.”
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But if you read it in context (HERE ) you quickly see that it does not support their interpretation either. (Use ctrl f and enter burning bush in the box. The refernce is in about the 11th full paragraph)
 
Church Militant:
Please note the footnote here that sheds some very good light on this:
2 [2] An angel of the LORD: the visual form under which God appeared and spoke to men is referred to indifferently in some Old Testament texts either as God’s angel or as God himself. Cf Genesis 16:7, 13; Exodus 14:19, 24, 25; Numbers 22:22-35; Jdgs 6,11-18.
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In other words, the cited passages make no distinction between the angel of the Lord and the Lord God Himself, the two are completely interchangeable. That is the point.
 
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, chapter 113:

" … I have proved that it was Jesus who appeared to and conversed with Moses, and Abraham, and all the other patriarchs without exception,…"

newadvent.org/fathers/01284.htm
 
Entry on Angels, Catholic Encyclopedia online:

As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding the opposite view, we may note Theodoret’s words (In Exod.): “The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw – for whose angel could the Father be? – but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel” (cf. Eusebius, Hist. Eccles., I, ii, 7; St. Irenaeus, Haer., iii, 6).

newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm
 
Eusebius, Hist. Eccles., I, ii, 7

Chapter 2. Summary view of the pre-existence and divinity of our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ.

… You will perceive also from the same words that this was no other than he [Jesus] who talked with Moses. For the Scripture says in the same words and with reference to the same one, “When the Lord saw that he drew near to see, the Lord called to him out of the bush and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, What is it? And he said, Draw not nigh hither; loose thy shoe from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. And he said unto him, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.”

newadvent.org/fathers/250101.htm
 
Irenaeus’ Against Heresies book III, chapter 6:
  1. Wherefore, as I have already stated, no other is named as God, or is called Lord, except Him who is God and Lord of all, who also said to Moses, “I AM THAT I AM. And thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: He who is, hath sent me unto you;” and His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who makes those that believe in His name the sons of God. And again, when the Son speaks to Moses, He says, “I am come down to deliver this people.” For it is He who descended and ascended for the salvation of men.
newadvent.org/fathers/0103306.htm
 
All the out of context quotes from the ECF in the world won’t change the fact that when you read their writings in context as well as the Word of God that nothing at all supports the idea that Jesus Christ and Michael the archangel were one and the same.

It’s just not there. :yawn: :sleep:
 
I had no idea the SDA’s also believed this? I thought it was just the Jehovah’s Wintesses? Well, you learn something new everyday they say. Sheesh! :eek:
 
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