SDA

[Prodigal_Son1]

I wanted to start a thread to see if some SDA would like to share the doctrines/ teachings of their Church, so we could discuss them against scriptures? I’m also interested in knowing when the SDA Church was founded.

 

[MeekandHumble]

I wanted to start a thread to see if some SDA would like to share the doctrines/ teachings of their Church, so we could discuss them against scriptures? I’m also interested in knowing when the SDA Church was founded.

Well, I’m not SDA but I am currently studying the SDA doctrine. What would you like to talk about?

 

[CMatt25]

I wanted to start a thread to see if some SDA would like to share the doctrines/ teachings of their Church, so we could discuss them against scriptures? I’m also interested in knowing when the SDA Church was founded.

Prod, I of course am not SDA and am not here to discuss SDA with you. It’s also been awhile since I studied the SDA faith. But here’s a site where you can get a lot of info with Scripture references.

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

I’ll post the section about the Church here for you:.

1. Church:
   The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God’s family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. **The church is the bride for whom Christ died **that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish. (Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

Here also is a site where you can take a free online study course.

studies.itiswritten.com/

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thanks for the posts. I have scanned the SDA website, but it’s the understanding of doctrines/teachings I wanted to discuss with SDA.

CMatt25, what is the SDA understanding of Church as it is viewed by other Christian faiths? From what I read, there are some limitations of who the SDA accept as part of that ‘body of believers’.

How did a Church formed in the late 1800s receive it’s authority?

Discussing the understanding of doctrines/teachings requires more than ‘copying and pasting’ from their website. Wouldn’t you agree?

 

[MeekandHumble]

Thanks for the posts. I have scanned the SDA website, but it’s the understanding of doctrines/teachings I wanted to discuss with SDA.

CMatt25, what is the SDA understanding of Church as it is viewed by other Christian faiths? From what I read, there are some limitations of who the SDA accept as part of that ‘body of believers’.

How did a Church formed in the late 1800s receive it’s authority?

Discussing the understanding of doctrines/teachings requires more than ‘copying and pasting’ from their website. Wouldn’t you agree?

If you want to discuss SDA faith, your Bible is needed. You absolutely, CANNOT, (lol) study the SDA faith without your Bible. Neither can you group certain (fanatical) individuals with the faith.

Like I said, I would be more than happy to discuss it with you. That is, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If you want to discuss SDA faith, your Bible is needed. You absolutely, CANNOT, (lol) study the SDA faith without your Bible. Neither can you group certain (fanatical) individuals with the faith.

Like I said, I would be more than happy to discuss it with you. That is, to the best of my knowledge.

I have a Bible.

How are we to know which are teaching ‘truth’ and which are ‘fanatical’?

 

[MeekandHumble]

I have a Bible.

How are we to know which are teaching ‘truth’ and which are ‘fanatical’?

Well, there are fanatics in everything/everywhere. Basketball, baseball and so on.

I can’t simply say, “something is true if a person uses scripture” because scripture can be twisted. To know fanaticism, you have to witness it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Well, there are fanatics in everything/everywhere. Basketball, baseball and so on.

I can’t simply say, “something is true if a person uses scripture” because scripture can be twisted. To know fanaticism, you have to witness it.

As you’ve stated that you know alot about SDA I have to ask, are you SDA?

The reason I ask is, you cannot give an understanding of their doctrines/teachings if you don’t believe them yourself.

How do we know which of those people you refer to, are ‘twisting’ scriptures?

 

[MeekandHumble]

As you’ve stated that you know alot about SDA I have to ask, are you SDA?

The reason I ask is, you cannot give an understanding of their doctrines/teachings if you don’t believe them yourself.

How do we know which of those people you refer to, are ‘twisting’ scriptures?

I never stated that I know a lot about SDA’s.

I stated in post #2 that I am not an SDA. Because I’m not SDA does not does not mean I don’t know anything about them/doctrine. I never said I don’t believe them nor did I say I did. You can’t twist words or put words in my mouth. That’s how problems are started.

One main way to know if someone is twisting scripture is like this. You can verify something in the Bible more than once. If a supported position is right, then there are tons of scriptures to support it without contradiction. Also, I person can explain scripture using scripture, without saying things like “I think” or “maybe” and so on.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I never stated that I know a lot about SDA’s.

I stated in post #2 that I am not an SDA. Because I’m not SDA does not does not mean I don’t know anything about them/doctrine. I never said I don’t believe them nor did I say I did. You can’t twist words or put words in my mouth. That’s how problems are started.

I apologize and never intended to put words in your mouth. I merely stated that I don’t see how someone can truly claim to understand their doctrines/teachings if they did not believe in them.

I know some Protestants believe in handling snakes, but would never claim to understand that teaching.

Many Protestants, posting on these forums, claim to know Catholic doctrine/teachings, to the extent of rejecting Catholic explanations to continue their assertion of of what we believe. Again, I don’t see how someone who does not believe their doctrines can really help in this dicussion of their doctrines/teachings against a study of the scriptures they use.

Thanks for your attempts though.

One main way to know if someone is twisting scripture is like this. You can verify something in the Bible more than once. If a supported position is right, then there are tons of scriptures to support it without contradiction. Also, I person can explain scripture using scripture, without saying things like “I think” or “maybe” and so on.

I use scriptures against scriptures to support my view.

Now, please show me, in more than one place, where scriptures teach us to interpret scriptures for ourselves, or where scriptures say that scriptures are the final authority?

 

[MeekandHumble]

I apologize and never intended to put words in your mouth. I merely stated that I don’t see how someone can truly claim to understand their doctrines/teachings if they did not believe in them.

I know some Protestants believe in handling snakes, but would never claim to understand that teaching.

Many Protestants, posting on these forums, claim to know Catholic doctrine/teachings, to the extent of rejecting Catholic explanations to continue their assertion of of what we believe. Again, I don’t see how someone who does not believe their doctrines can really help in this dicussion of their doctrines/teachings against a study of the scriptures they use.

Thanks for your attempts though.

I use scriptures against scriptures to support my view.

Now, please show me, in more than one place, where scriptures teach us to interpret scriptures for ourselves, or where scriptures say that scriptures are the final authority?

Apology accepted.

I have studied evolution and I know enough about it to understand it, yet I do not believe it. I don’t believe it, but does that mean I don’t understand it. Not at all.

I have been studying the SDA faith, because their beliefs are the only ones (that I have come across) that go along with the Bible. I am studying the SDA faith, and for the most part, yes I believe it to be truth.

What is the difference in myself, who studies the SDA faith and believes it, and someone who studies the catholic faith before joining. I am simply investigating something, before I become a part of it. For example why would I see the name transcendentalist and become one without investigating it?

I have study a lot of things and I always find myself running into a wall. So I kept going. I came in contact with the SDA faith. Studied prophecies, state of the dead and a lot of my questions were and are still being answered. So this is where I am at right now.

As for the scriptures being final authority, that is another topic. Let’s say the Bible isn’t the “final authority”, shouldn’t the Bible still match up with every single belief of a, let’s say “Christian”?

So how about that conversation?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have been studying the SDA faith, because their beliefs are the only ones (that I have come across) that go along with the Bible.

As for the scriptures being final authority, that is another topic. Let’s say the Bible isn’t the “final authority”, shouldn’t the Bible still match up with every single belief of a, let’s say “Christian”?

You say their beliefs are the only ones (that you have come across) that go along with the Bible. Isn’t that according to your ‘private interpretation’?

The same would hold true for whoever is matching up the beliefs with the Bible. It is according to individual interpretation. Therefore, we need to match up the belief that everyone is to interpret scriptures for themselves, with the scriptures. Then we will have to match up which interpretation is correct with the Bible, if we have different interpretations. Lastly, we have to find the authority, in the scriptures, that helps us discern which is correct and which is incorrect. Then we can proceed.

 

[MeekandHumble]

You say their beliefs are the only ones (that you have come across) that go along with the Bible. Isn’t that according to your ‘private interpretation’?

The same would hold true for whoever is matching up the beliefs with the Bible. It is according to individual interpretation. Therefore, we need to match up the belief that everyone is to interpret scriptures for themselves, with the scriptures. Then we will have to match up which interpretation is correct with the Bible, if we have different interpretations. Lastly, we have to find the authority, in the scriptures, that helps us discern which is correct and which is incorrect. Then we can proceed.

Would you like for me to show you why I said those things match up with the Bible?

How can you start a thread wanting to talk to a SDA and then mention authority of scriptures? That is a fight waiting to happen.

I have to ask. Do you honestly want to have a conversation or do you want to argue? You are obviously trying to discredit the Bible and our conversation about scripture hasn’t started. How about this, you use your catechisms and I use the Bible?

I have two more questions. Is the Bible the final authority to make peter the first pope? Are we to follow the lamb?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Would you like for me to show you why I said those things match up with the Bible?

How can you start a thread wanting to talk to a SDA and then mention authority of scriptures? That is a fight waiting to happen.

I have to ask. Do you honestly want to have a conversation or do you want to argue? You are obviously trying to discredit the Bible and our conversation about scripture hasn’t started. How about this, you use your catechisms and I use the Bible?

I have two more questions. Was the Bible the final authority when peter was made the first pope? Are we to follow the lamb?

I started a thread, specifically discussing SDA, because one of our SDA brethren has told me I wouldn’t be ‘counted in that number’ if I went against one particular doctrine/teaching of the SDA Church.

I used scriptures to support my view, but there seems to be an assertion that my interpretation was incorrect. Now, who subjected who to authority, an authority assumed upon himself, without the scriptural support to show me his interpretation was correct over the Church’s interpretation, or an interpretation arrived at through the tradition of the living Church? Surely, to assume such authority, the ‘final authority’, as defined by some, would state so.

These discussions are debates, not a place to come to with an agenda in mind. Expect those views differing from Catholicism to be challenged.

I would never ‘discredit’ the Bible. It is individual interpretations I challenge. I accept the interpretation as read in the tradition of the living Church which, in my opinion, is supported by scriptures as being the ‘final authority’.

The Catechism is based on the tradition of the living Church and scriptures. We can use both if you like, but I will not be limited to one for an ‘experiment’. Just as I will also often refer to the writings of the early Church fathers, who document the practices of the earliest Christians.

The Old Testament was ‘an’ authority when Peter received His authority, from the Word who was the ‘final authority’. There was no complete Bible as we have it today. Many of our discussions refer to the New Testament, which came from the men of the Church and not the other way around. Christ established an authoritative Church and did not write anything down, nor did He command anything written, according to the scriptures themselves. Again, the Church came first and scriptures came from the Church, through the inspiration of God, in that order.

Christ is the cornerstone and the Apostles are the foundation. He is the head of the body, which is His Church. Through those Christ chose and appointed, and their successors, we follow Him and only Him.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So how about that conversation?

Since you seem to want to ‘defend’ the SDA doctrines/teachings, and no SDA are up to the discussion themselves, yet anyways, I do have a question.

Why do SDA hold everyone to the letter of the law, as written in the 10 commandments, yet reject the other commandments of God as written in scriptures, or the ‘final authority’ as they seem to think of the Bible?

 

[Serving_Him]

I’m Adventist. I can share our beliefs and teachings with you if you would like. I have been in the Adventist church for close to 3 years now. Prior to this I was in the baptist church.

I would be more than happy to talk to whoever. I only ask that you give me time to respond. I am quite busy at times and not too familiar with this site.

I would like to say that the site posted earlier does have the fundamental beliefs on it. That would be something nice to look at.

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

 

[MeekandHumble]

Since you seem to want to ‘defend’ the SDA doctrines/teachings, and no SDA are up to the discussion themselves, yet anyways, I do have a question.

Why do SDA hold everyone to the letter of the law, as written in the 10 commandments, yet reject the other commandments of God as written in scriptures, or the ‘final authority’ as they seem to think of the Bible?

First I will respond to your previous post. I understand what you are saying about the authority issue for thousands of years ago. But what you failed to answer is, how should I say this.

Catholics stand on the Bible when it comes to peter, yet reject other teachings the Bible hold (which we will get to later) How can one hold the Bible TODAY as authority to make Peter the first pope, but when scripture differs from their opinions, the Bible is null and void or isn’t the final authority?

Okay now for this post.

The question you asked has nothing to do with SDA doctrine. Every answer will be different. A person can’t assume that all SDA’s reject other commandments. There is a difference between not keeping all of the commandments (a sinner) and not believing all of the commandments. I believe every word from the beginning to the end, but I am still a sinner.

As for that person who told you that you wouldn’t be counted in that number, I can’t comment on him as a person nor can I say who will be saved. So again, if you want to talk about doctrine then go ahead, I’m all for it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

First I will respond to your previous post. I understand what you are saying about the authority issue for thousands of years ago. But what you failed to answer is, how should I say this.

Catholics stand on the Bible when it comes to peter, yet reject other teachings the Bible hold (which we will get to later) How can one hold the Bible TODAY as authority to make Peter the first pope, but when scripture differs from their opinions, the Bible is null and void or isn’t the final authority?

Thousands of years ago? Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law. Why would time make a difference on the authority?

Read back through my posts and you’ll see I do not discredit, which means ‘make null and void’, the Bible.

We have a Church, that scriptures tell us is the authority. With the scriptures, the things we say are supported with scriptures. So, scriptures and tradition tell us of Peter’s authority, together. Neither is the ‘final authority’.

We have not rejected ‘other teachings’. Just as you can say that, I can say ‘you misinterpreted other teachings’.

What about the other teachings that the scriptures are the final authority? Where is that written?

What about the other teachings that we should interpret scriptures for ourselves? Where is that written?

Instead of continually trying to throw the spotlight on Catholicism, answer those questions.

Okay now for this post.

The question you asked has nothing to do with SDA doctrine. Every answer will be different. A person can’t assume that all SDA’s reject other commandments. There is a difference between not keeping all of the commandments (a sinner) and not believing all of the commandments. I believe every word from the beginning to the end, but I am still a sinner.

Does the SDA ‘pastors’ wear fine linen vestments?
Does the SDA use candles and incense?

The list can go on and on. If these are rejected, why?

As for that person who told you that you wouldn’t be counted in that number, I can’t comment on him as a person nor can I say who will be saved. So again, if you want to talk about doctrine then go ahead, I’m all for it.

I agree with this.

As I do not know SDA doctrines, I invited SDA to share those doctrines, that we might go through the scriptures together. You asked me for doctrines, but I don’t know them, nor do I understand them. I can only go by those who profess SDA and what they say.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’m Adventist. I can share our beliefs and teachings with you if you would like. I have been in the Adventist church for close to 3 years now. Prior to this I was in the baptist church.

I would be more than happy to talk to whoever. I only ask that you give me time to respond. I am quite busy at times and not too familiar with this site.

I would like to say that the site posted earlier does have the fundamental beliefs on it. That would be something nice to look at.

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Hello Serving Him,

I have scanned the SDA website, but that doesn’t give me the SDA understanding of doctrines/teachings.

I cannot list doctrines/teachings, if I don’t know them.

There are SDA on these forums, who have condemned me and Cathocism, so maybe a good place to start is to share SDA doctrines/teachings that SDA understand to conflict with Catholicism. There seems to be some ambiguity between, what’s written on the website, between SDA and other Christian faiths. Do SDA not consider Catholics as Christians?

 

[MeekandHumble]

Thousands of years ago? Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law. Why would time make a difference on the authority?

Read back through my posts and you’ll see I do not discredit, which means ‘make null and void’, the Bible.

We have a Church, that scriptures tell us is the authority. With the scriptures, the things we say are supported with scriptures. So, scriptures and tradition tell us of Peter’s authority, together. Neither is the ‘final authority’.

We have not rejected ‘other teachings’. Just as you can say that, I can say ‘you misinterpreted other teachings’.

What about the other teachings that the scriptures are the final authority? Where is that written?

What about the other teachings that we should interpret scriptures for ourselves? Where is that written?

Instead of continually trying to throw the spotlight on Catholicism, answer those questions.

Does the SDA ‘pastors’ wear fine linen vestments?
Does the SDA use candles and incense?

The list can go on and on. If these are rejected, why?

I agree with this.

As I do not know SDA doctrines, I invited SDA to share those doctrines, that we might go through the scriptures together. You asked me for doctrines, but I don’t know them, nor do I understand them. I can only go by those who profess SDA and what they say.

Time does not make a difference with authority. But how can one use the Bible for the purpose of making peter the pope yet say the Bible is not the final authority. That is a pretty big gap. Isn’t that backwards. The Book that you use to “establish” your church is not final authority when it comes to the law? You claim that your church gave us the Bible yet, again, it is not final authority?

Not only the Bible, but the catholic encyclopedia says that Jesus is the Word. Based on the the Bible (that you gave us), we know that Jesus is/was the word made flesh. If that is not final authority then what is?

I won’t even get into interpretation, because we will go into circles of who is right.

I’m not throwing the spotlight on catholicism, I’m stating the obvious.

Now, as for your questions, again, you are not asking about doctrine. I have never met every SDA pastor, so I can’t answer for them. I’m not rejecting questions, I want to talk about doctrine, whether SDA or catholic. You made the thread, you decide.

You said yourself that you wanted to discuss the understandings of doctrines/teachings of SDA’s. You don’t believe me? Go back and read post 1 and 4.

So, again lets discuss doctrine. And like I said, I will discuss with you the doctrines/teachings to the best of my knowledge.