SDA

[Prodigal_Son1]

You didn’t list what you wanted to talk about. I asked you to do so. Two people listed the beliefs for you and you never mentioned any of them.

How can you say no one understands the doctrine when you have failed to mention anything. We haven’t talked about doctrine, so please do not tell someone that they don’t understand anything.

Let me try this once more for your convenience.

I do not know SDA doctrines. I have read the website, but it does not allow for questions. You made your offer, and I explained I preferred to have someone who believed the doctrines explain them to me. What Church are you affliated with?

 

[MeekandHumble]

Let me try this once more for your convenience.

I do not know SDA doctrines. I have read the website, but it does not allow for questions. You made your offer, and I explained I preferred to have someone who believed the doctrines explain them to me. What Church are you affliated with?

Post #11

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Post #11

I never stated that I know a lot about SDA’s.

I stated in post #2 that I am not an SDA. Because I’m not SDA does not does not mean I don’t know anything about them/doctrine. I never said I don’t believe them nor did I say I did.

I have been studying the SDA faith, because their beliefs are the only ones (that I have come across) that go along with the Bible. I am studying the SDA faith, and for the most part, yes I believe it to be truth.

My first encounter with any SDA, whatsoever, just happened in the last couple of days on these forums. I must say, they have not made a good impression, in my honest opinion.

I started this thread to give them an opportunity to share their doctrines and explained I had intentions of going to scriptures to weigh them, and I plainly identify myself as a Catholic. This should have been enough indication that I would go to scriptures with a Catholic point of view.

I even stated, I don’t like the way people come here and start telling Catholics what they believe and didn’t want to do this with any SDA. The offer was for them to present their doctrines, with scriptural support and explanations, so that I could see what scriptures they are using and see if, in my own personal opinion based on how I have revealed that I read scriptures (in light of the tradition of the living Church), they were interpreting scriptures correctly.

If it’s too much to ask, then why are the SDA here, on a Catholic forum? What is their goal and purpose?

 

[MeekandHumble]

My first encounter with any SDA, whatsoever, just happened in the last couple of days on these forums. I must say, they have not made a good impression, in my honest opinion.

I started this thread to give them an opportunity to share their doctrines and explained I had intentions of going to scriptures to weigh them, and I plainly identify myself as a Catholic. This should have been enough indication that I would go to scriptures with a Catholic point of view.

I even stated, I don’t like the way people come here and start telling Catholics what they believe and didn’t want to do this with any SDA. The offer was for them to present their doctrines, with scriptural support and explanations, so that I could see what scriptures they are using and see if, in my own personal opinion based on how I have revealed that I read scriptures (in light of the tradition of the living Church), they were interpreting scriptures correctly.

If it’s too much to ask, then why are the SDA here, on a Catholic forum? What is their goal and purpose?

I can’t answer for them.

 

[CMatt25]

Let me try this once more for your convenience.

I do not know SDA doctrines. I have read the website, but it does not allow for questions. You made your offer, and I explained I preferred to have someone who believed the doctrines explain them to me. What Church are you affliated with?

Prod if you are that interested and don’t want to wait for a SDA to come here to help you, I had posted a link to a free online SDA Bible study for you. You can take it at your pace. The course was simple, easy to follow. It’s been several yrs since I took it, but if it’s the same, you’ll even be able to email an instructor should you need to with any questions. I even received a certificate for completion and there was no pressure to convert.

I don’t think anyone has tried to derail your thread though. I could show you Jn 14:6 where Christ said He was the Truth. But by definition Christians accept Christ. So we have unity there. I could show you in Acts 17 where Paul said to search Scripture but you’ll only respond that you or the CC interpret it to mean only the Bereans were to search the OT and was not to apply to us later searching NT Scripture. I could suggest to you 2Peter 1:20,21, verses often sited to reject private interpretation, is talking about prophecies in Scripture the prophets proclaimed and how they did not arrive at their prophecies through private interpretation. And is not talking against us reading the Bible and praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance in understanding. But you would not agree. You also don’t allow any thought of Christ possibly needing to correct His Church if people strayed so as to keep it on path so the gates don’t prevail. So perhaps the SDAs just don’t feel like arguing with you right now.

I hope you didn’t allow your “first encounter with any SDA whatsoever” and it being on an online forum, to ruin your Lent though. I could have but in the end I didn’t allow mine to be ruined by some comments I’ve received on CAF by people from our Church. Sometimes I think wow with the tone some seemingly use, I’m surprised more people don’t get scared off from our Church… So peace and again God bless you with a beautifully Blessed Easter!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prod if you are that interested and don’t want to wait for a SDA to come here to help you, I had posted a link to a free online SDA Bible study for you. You can take it at your pace. The course was simple, easy to follow. It’s been several yrs since I took it, but if it’s the same, you’ll even be able to email an instructor should you need to with any questions. I even received a certificate for completion and there was no pressure to convert.

How many interpretations are there? Just as many as there are denominations? Why would I be interested in participating in a Bible ‘study’ that is very possibly based on a misinterpretation?

I am here and so are other faiths being represented. It was here that through the SDA interpretation I was told, those who didn’t accept their interpretation would not be accepted in that heavenly number. It was here that I was told, those without proper knowledge have a chance and in the same sentence told me that their explanation was my receiving proper knowledge and I was warned.

I don’t think anyone has tried to derail your thread though. I could show you Jn 14:6 where Christ said He was the Truth. But by definition Christians accept Christ. So we have unity there. I could show you in Acts 17 where Paul said to search Scripture but you’ll only respond that you or the CC interpret it to mean only the Bereans were to search the OT and was not to apply to us later searching NT Scripture. I could suggest to you 2Peter 1:20,21, verses often sited to reject private interpretation, is talking about prophecies in Scripture the prophets proclaimed and how they did not arrive at their prophecies through private interpretation. And is not talking against us reading the Bible and praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance in understanding. But you would not agree. You also don’t allow any thought of Christ possibly needing to correct His Church if people strayed so as to keep it on path so the gates don’t prevail. So perhaps the SDAs just don’t feel like arguing with you right now.

There is a certain amount of unity between believers. What you fail to recognize is, that is normally one sided as many who challenge Catholicism do not even recognize us as Christians, or they consider Catholics to be in error.

That certain amount of unity came through the Catholic Church, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. There would be more unity, had those different denominations chosen to take more of His truth with them as they separate themselves from the Church He built.

We could discuss Paul and the Bereans. Paul preached the explanation, interpretation, and the people were noble minded enough to search the scriptures and find the preaching had caused them to understand.

The passage in Peter is telling people not to ‘teach’ or ‘speak’ from a private interpretation. Do we ignore Peter’s direct warning about the unlearned and unstable wresting scriptures, to their destruction? Do we ignore Peter telling us not to be led aside by the error of the unwise? Why don’t you address that passage?

Christ can ‘correct’ His Church, just as He can protect His truth. Christ built a Church, that the men of that Church wrote the scriptures, in that order.

I hope you didn’t allow your “first encounter with any SDA whatsoever” and it being on an online forum, to ruin your Lent though. I could have but in the end I didn’t allow mine to be ruined by some comments I’ve received on CAF by people from our Church. Sometimes I think wow with the tone some seemingly use, I’m surprised more people don’t get scared off from our Church… So peace and again God bless you with a beautifully Blessed Easter!

How many ‘wows’ are there from Catholic who see another Catholic’s readiness to defend anyone who challenges Catholicism and another Catholic who rarely defends anything about the Catholic faith while showing an open disagreement with many aspects of the faith?

You should private message me for a link to a ‘Christian’ forum where you can preach the unity you preach to Catholics. I think you’d be shocked at the responses of condemnation you’ll receive.

 

[Dokimas]

Time does not make a difference with authority. But how can one use the Bible for the purpose of making peter the pope yet say the Bible is not the final authority. That is a pretty big gap. Isn’t that backwards. The Book that you use to “establish” your church is not final authority when it comes to the law? You claim that your church gave us the Bible yet, again, it is not final authority?

Not only the Bible, but the catholic encyclopedia says that Jesus is the Word. Based on the the Bible (that you gave us), we know that Jesus is/was the word made flesh. If that is not final authority then what is?

I won’t even get into interpretation, because we will go into circles of who is right.

I’m not throwing the spotlight on catholicism, I’m stating the obvious.

Now, as for your questions, again, you are not asking about doctrine. I have never met every SDA pastor, so I can’t answer for them. I’m not rejecting questions, I want to talk about doctrine, whether SDA or catholic. You made the thread, you decide.

You said yourself that you wanted to discuss the understandings of doctrines/teachings of SDA’s. You don’t believe me? Go back and read post 1 and 4.

So, again lets discuss doctrine. And like I said, I will discuss with you the doctrines/teachings to the best of my knowledge.

It is kind of circular reasoning. “I believe the CC is the one true church because the CC tells us the Bible says it is.”

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It is kind of circular reasoning. “I believe the CC is the one true church because the CC tells us the Bible says it is.”

Just as circular for those who reject the Church. ‘I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church…because that’s what I believe’.

Another opportunity to support any view that challenges Catholicism? It speaks loudly…

 

[Cristian_B]

Let us talk about soul sleep.

Is this topic good enough?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let us talk about soul sleep.

Is this topic good enough?

Good enough for me, but there is a thread discussing ‘soul sleep’.

Mar 9:4 (9:3) And there appeared to them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

 

[CMatt25]

How many interpretations are there? Just as many as there are denominations? Why would I be interested in participating in a Bible ‘study’ that is very possibly based on a misinterpretation?

I am here and so are other faiths being represented. It was here that through the SDA interpretation I was told, those who didn’t accept their interpretation would not be accepted in that heavenly number. It was here that I was told, those without proper knowledge have a chance and in the same sentence told me that their explanation was my receiving proper knowledge and I was warned.

The passage in Peter is telling people not to ‘teach’ or ‘speak’ from a private interpretation. Do we ignore Peter’s direct warning about the unlearned and unstable wresting scriptures, to their destruction? Do we ignore Peter telling us not to be led aside by the error of the unwise? Why don’t you address that passage?

Christ can ‘correct’ His Church, just as He can protect His truth. Christ built a Church, that the men of that Church wrote the scriptures, in that order.

Prod, I then don’t understand the point of your thread, other than to argue, if you have no interest since your mind is already made up that there is misinterpretation. I want to praise and glorify Him on this holy weekend, not argue.

I can’t speak for the SDA you are referring to. I was always told by my SDA friends and by SDAs in another forum that if you were not convicted of SDA “knowledge”, you could still get to heaven. It’s if you are convicted of the 7th Day Sabbath for instance, and then don’t adhere, is when you might run into some difficulty. But we are not convicted of all SDA teaching, Prod, so I think we still have a chance! Perhaps my experience is with less stringent SDAs as well. Although I’ve run into some rather hard core ones on another forum. Just as I have strident Catholics here. As someone posted earlier to you, there are more or less extremist or fanatical elements in all places.

Your Peter verses say things are difficult to understand and not to be led astray. I agree. But they don’t address who might lead us astray. By their fruits we shall know them. Now you don’t believe the CC ever has strayed. Others might believe differently. And Prod, I understand your concerns about all the interpretations. But Christians have various interpretations and as you and Dokimas discussed, the circle runs both ways. A circle however is connected as one. What unites far outweighs what divides.

So Prod, on this Easter weekend and always let us with open hearts and minds and as blessed peacemakers, rejoice in the One most important agreement of all. Our belief and unity in Him, our Lord and Savior Jesus! Alleluia!

 

[mark_a]

Well, I’m not SDA but I am currently studying the SDA doctrine. What would you like to talk about?

Abortion. I read somewhere they are pro-choice. Could this possibly be true?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokimas​

It is kind of circular reasoning. “I believe the CC is the one true church because the CC tells us the Bible says it is.”

Just as circular for those who reject the Church. ‘I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church…because that’s what I believe’.

Not quite, not believing the CC is the one true church out of a personal conviction that came about by reseach into the word or a personal revelation of the Spirit of God is a lot different than believing something because your church tells you to believe it.

What’s up PS1?

 

[CMatt25]

Abortion. I read somewhere they are pro-choice. Could this possibly be true?

adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html

I wouldn’t say they are pro abortion by any means. Pro-choice in perhaps limited circumstances because of an understanding of free will might be a way of putting it. Not out of line with many other Christians. Some excerpts:

Abortion is never an action of little moral consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed. Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.
Abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness. The Church should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision concerning an abortion. Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered.
The Church also should commit itself to assist in alleviating the unfortunate social, economic, and psychological factors that add to abortion and to care redemptively for those suffering the consequences of individual decisions on this issue.

The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman’s life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Your Peter verses say things are difficult to understand and not to be led astray. I agree. But they don’t address who might lead us astray. By their fruits we shall know them. Now you don’t believe the CC ever has strayed. Others might believe differently. And Prod, I understand your concerns about all the interpretations. But Christians have various interpretations and as you and Dokimas discussed, the circle runs both ways. A circle however is connected as one. What unites far outweighs what divides.

The Peter verse states being led aside by the error of the unwise. The unwise being those unlearned and unstable who have wrested scriptures, to their own destruction. I do not agree with your analogy that a two opposing views comes to one.

Where is it in scriptures that what unites, far outweighs what divides?

 

[Dokimas]

Just as circular for those who reject the Church. ‘I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church…because that’s what I believe’.

Another opportunity to support any view that challenges Catholicism? It speaks loudly…

That’s not what I say. Here’s my reasoning…​

If any church says they are the ONE church and that they are 100% correct about their understanding of the Bible and that turns out to be not really true (doctrines you and I go around and around over), then that church is defaulted on its own from being the one and only true church. That doesn’t mean its not a good church, it just means it can’t be the one church, IMO.

 

[Dokimas]

At least it’s honest. Your church being the one church is your opinion.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Not quite, not believing the CC is the one true church out of a personal conviction that came about by reseach into the word or a personal revelation of the Spirit of God is a lot different than believing something because your church tells you to believe it.

What’s up PS1?

The Church did not tell me to convert, from Protestantism, in 1985. In fact, no one on earth evangelized me. It was a ‘conviction’, through reading scriptures, research, prayer and reflection that the truth is in the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, built by Christ. So you see, another misconception dispelled, the Church does force Catholics to have faith, believe or whatever. With the free will given us by God and the gifts of faith, understanding, wisdom, guidance of the Holy Spirit, we choose to believe, as it’s written in scriptures.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That’s not what I say. Here’s my reasoning…​

If any church says they are the ONE church and that they are 100% correct about their understanding of the Bible and that turns out to be not really true (doctrines you and I go around and around over), then that church is defaulted on its own from being the one and only true church. That doesn’t mean its not a good church, it just means it can’t be the one church, IMO.

Qualify the statement further…according to your own private interpretations. Christ didn’t build a Church on ‘perfect’ men. They were men, just like you and I. If we doubt His Church over the actions of sinful men, it shows doubts in Christ Himself. He chose Judas who betrayed Him, He had many disciples leave Him and walk with Him no more, He chose Peter who denied Him, He chose Thomas who doubted Him, He chose the disciples that ran away from Him when He was arrested. He even chose Paul, after Paul participated in the persecutions and killings of Christians. Does all that default Him as well as the Church He built?

 

[CMatt25]

The Peter verse states being led aside by the error of the unwise. The unwise being those unlearned and unstable who have wrested scriptures, to their own destruction. I do not agree with your analogy that a two opposing views comes to one.

Where is it in scriptures that what unites, far outweighs what divides?

That’s ok, Prod, if you do not agree.

But for starters, Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition, the enmities in his flesh

2Cor 5:11 But all these things one and the same Spirit worketh, dividing to every one according as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ.

14For the body also is not one member, but many.

Peace.