SDAs were kinda sneaky!

[daro2096]

Gosh I have heard this soo many times comming from the SDAs. saying this, is a method of bashing the RCC ( when I say RCC is catholic people are also included) and look like the good guy.

God hates the sin but loves the sinner.

Are you churches full of idles or not?

Does your Catholic Catholism book list the 10 commandments with the commandment about idles taken out and the 3rd commandment about taking the name of the Lord in vain made the 2nd and the Sabbath commandment made the 3rd and the 10th commandment about coveting divided into two?

 

[RLT]

Are you churches full of idles or not?

Idle what?

 

[daro2096]

Idle what?

Carved images?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6

What do you call Mary worship?

 

[RLT]

Carved images?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6

What do you call Mary worship?

Oh, you mean IDOLS…I thought you were talking about idle Catholics, we got a few of those…

 

[kellie]

Carved images?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6

What do you call Mary worship?

Please, please, please read up on Catholicism before you attack.

We do not worship Mary, we adore her, and pray to her.

We do not worship idols. We may have statues in our churches, but we do not believe they are the actual item that is our higher supreme being. That is what is meant about worshipping idols, thinking they are literally the supreme being.

The Catechism lists ALL 10 Commandments as they were given to Moses. There is no numbering system in the Bible, so our church numbered them, and other faiths such as yours numbered them in a different way, however, both of our faiths still have ALL 10.

 

[daro2096]

Please, please, please read up on Catholicism before you attack.

We do not worship Mary, we adore her, and pray to her.

We do not worship idols. We may have statues in our churches, but we do not believe they are the actual item that is our higher supreme being. That is what is meant about worshipping idols, thinking they are literally the supreme being.

The Catechism lists ALL 10 Commandments as they were given to Moses. There is no numbering system in the Bible, so our church numbered them, and other faiths such as yours numbered them in a different way, however, both of our faiths still have ALL 10.

That is still changing the ten commandments. You can’t combine the first and the second into 1 commandment.

1. I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a.s.s., nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour’s.

Yes you do worship Mary. Mary has been dead for nearly 2000 years and she sleeps the same as the rest of the dead, awaiting the resurrection. Bible forbids praying to the dead. Don’t you kneel to your idols and pray? Doesn’t the second commandment forbid that?

 

[kellie]

That is still changing the ten commandments. You can’t combine the first and the second into 1 commandment.

1. I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a.s.s., nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour’s.

Yes you do worship Mary. Mary has been dead for nearly 2000 years and she sleeps the same as the rest of the dead, awaiting the resurrection. Bible forbids praying to the dead. Don’t you kneel to your idols and pray? Doesn’t the second commandment forbid that?

You truly did not read any of my post.

How can we have “combined” Commandments, when they aren’t seperated in the Bible. They are all just stated in passages. There is no distinct seperation or numbering of them in the Bible.

Bowing down to a statue in church and praying is NOT hoping that the statue will answer our prayers.
That is what worshipping idols is all about.

We know only God answers our prayers.

We ask Mary and all other saints, whom we believe are all in Heaven and not dead, to help us pray for what we are asking for.

Kind of like asking a friend to help out.

If we pray to Mary, it is asking Mary to help us plead to God for what we want.

Catholics believe in intercession.

 

[daro2096]

You truly did not read any of my post.

How can we have “combined” Commandments, when they aren’t seperated in the Bible. They are all just stated in passages. There is no distinct seperation or numbering of them in the Bible.

Bowing down to a statue in church and praying is NOT hoping that the statue will answer our prayers.
That is what worshipping idols is all about.

We know only God answers our prayers.

We ask Mary and all other saints, whom we believe are all in Heaven and not dead, to help us pray for what we are asking for.

Kind of like asking a friend to help out.

If we pray to Mary, it is asking Mary to help us plead to God for what we want.

Catholics believe in intercession.

The 10 commandments were numbered on the stones that God wrote on. You still take the 10th about coveting and divide it into 2. 9. Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s wife and 10 Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s house. That is changing God’s law in my book.

Mary and the saints are dead and still in the grave. Peter said in Acts 2 that David was still dead and in the tomb after Jesus’ resurrection. Demons can impersonate dead loved ones. When you die you cease to exist. You don’t go to heaven or hell when you die. The dead are asleep awaiting the trumpet of God at the last day when Jesus comes back with his rewards. We are not to pray to the dead. Want me to repeat the Scriptures on state of the dead?

I believe in intercession too but my intercesser is Jesus Christ not some sinner who died 2000 years ago.

 

[Gamera]

The Catholic church did ban people from owing copies of the Bible. If people were caught with Scriptures that person was usually burned at the stake(usally after being tortured).

Translating the Bible into the common langauge of the people was a offense punishable by death too.

No. Never happened. The Catholic Church never “banned the Bible.” That is a myth.

 

[Gamera]

That is still changing the ten commandments. You can’t combine the first and the second into 1 commandment.

1. I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a.s.s., nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour’s.

What Bible translation gave you this man-made numbering system? I’ve never seen any Bible translation which added numbers to the text. That’s terrible. Scripture warns us not to add or subtract anything from its text (Rev. 21:18-19).

Scripture itself, of course, does NOT number the Commandments – it simply states them.

“The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present Catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.” CCC 2066.

 

[Gamera]

Yes you do worship Mary.

I never have worshipped anyone but Jesus.

Mary has been dead for nearly 2000 years and she sleeps the same as the rest of the dead, awaiting the resurrection.

Where does the Bible say this? Where is Mary’s grave?

Bible forbids praying to the dead.

No, it doesn’t. The Bible forbids conjuring the dead (Lev 19:31). There’s a difference.

Don’t you kneel to your idols and pray? Doesn’t the second commandment forbid that?

No, I’ve never knelt before an idol. An idol is an object worshipped as divine. I’ve never seen an idol in a Catholic Church, and I certainly wouldn’t worship one.

 

[Gamera]

Your Catholic Cathoism says that the Roman Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday back in 324AD.

I’ve got the Catechism right here — it doesn’t say that. It says, “This practice of Christian assembly [on Sunday] dates from the beginnings of the Apostolic age.” CCC 2178. Nothing about the year 324 in here.

That fact alone should tell you that whatever source you’re quoting is unreliable. If they aren’t telling you the truth about what the Catholic Catechism says, what else are they misrepresenting to you?

Check for yourself. Look at our Catechism online and see whether you’ve been told the truth about what Catholics believe.

 

[Brian_C]

Daro. A warm welcome and hearty thanks for diverting the discussion of my thread.

Some call that “thread-jacking.”

By the way, the Mother Church has no set in stone order for the Ten Commandments:

CCC2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.

 

[kellie]

The 10 commandments were numbered on the stones that God wrote on. You still take the 10th about coveting and divide it into 2. 9. Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s wife and 10 Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s house. That is changing God’s law in my book.

Mary and the saints are dead and still in the grave. Peter said in Acts 2 that David was still dead and in the tomb after Jesus’ resurrection. Demons can impersonate dead loved ones. When you die you cease to exist. You don’t go to heaven or hell when you die. The dead are asleep awaiting the trumpet of God at the last day when Jesus comes back with his rewards. We are not to pray to the dead. Want me to repeat the Scriptures on state of the dead?

I believe in intercession too but my intercesser is Jesus Christ not some sinner who died 2000 years ago.

Where in the Bible does it say the tablets had a number next to each Commandment the way you believe they should be numbered?

 

[Brian_C]

Will everyone please stop responding to daro’s posts. It has completely diverted the discussion of my thread, which was NOT about the differences between SDAs and Catholics, rather what to do about some SDA missionaries.:crying:

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Daro-

If you have questions or comments that are different than the topic of this thread, please feel free to begin a new thread to discuss them.

We welcome intellectual discussions about our faith, but we like to keep all discussions on topic.

Thanks for your cooperation!

God bless-

Rachel

 

[Mommyof02green]

The 10 commandments were numbered on the stones that God wrote on. You still take the 10th about coveting and divide it into 2. 9. Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s wife and 10 Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s house. That is changing God’s law in my book.

Jews number the commandments different then most Non-Catholic Christians. Most Non-Catholic Christians number the commandments different then Catholics. (So traditionally there are 3 ways of numbering the 10 commandments) Kellie’s thumb-print showed that

However here are some web-links that show that as well.
jewfaq.org/10.htm
fisheaters.com/10commandments.html

Also I think this quote from Judaism 101 nails it on the head:

The general perception in this country is that the “Ten Commandments” are part of the common religious heritage of Judaism, Catholicism and Protestantism, part of the sacred scriptures that we all share, and should not be controversial. But most people involved in the debate seem to have missed the fact that these three religions divide up the commandments in different ways! Judaism, unlike Catholicism and Protestantism, considers “I am the L-rd, your G-d” to be the first “commandment.” Catholicism, unlike Judaism and Protestantism, considers coveting property to be separate from coveting a spouse. Protestantism, unlike Judaism and Catholicism, considers the prohibition against idolatry to be separate from the prohibition against worshipping other gods. No two religions agree on a single list. So whose list should we post?

Our different “traditions” has us numbering the commandments different. A Jew numbers them different then Christians. And Christianity has 2 different ways of numbering them. As Christians we either use the numbering done by Augustine or the numbering done by Origen.

With some understanding of the 3 different traditions I’ve come to realize it’s just the short hand (summary) that freaks people out. Summary is just a way of helping to recap and remember. It’s an aid.

Opening up the Bible to Exodus chapter 20 and Deuteronomy chapter 5 we can get the whole story. Reading the section on the 10 commandments in the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church), Exodus Chapter 20 and Deuteronomy Chapter 5 Catholics and Non-Catholics can get a complete picture on how Catholicism views and regards the 10 commandments.

Here is a link to the section of the CCC regarding the 10 commandments:
usccb.org/catechism/text/partthreetoc.htm

 

[Brian_C]

Thanks Rachel!

Okay, back on topic. Sunday is fast approaching and quite honestly, I was hoping to be out of town. But, it seems I will be here. What to do? I’m gonna see if I can find an email.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Thanks Rachel!

Okay, back on topic. Sunday is fast approaching and quite honestly, I was hoping to be out of town. But, it seems I will be here. What to do? I’m gonna see if I can find an email.

Do you have an friend/relative house to go to? Celebrate Easter??

 

[Brian_C]

Nah. We’ll be here. My MIL is coming up tomorrow and I may get my family to come up if my grandparents can make the trip. It seems they have no working website so I guess I’ll give the church a call.