Seal of Confession and criminals

[CRATUS]

Can the priest report a crime revealed in confession? Why protect the sins that are against the law and do not protect society? I doubt a murderer is going to go confession or even a rapist. Probably a thief. I also do not understand the degrees of sin. Even the most holy of saints go to confession and are sinners. A total jerk can sincerely confess minutes before his death and be accepted by Gods grace into heaven. How is fornication and murder both mortal sins? I think fornication is a sin but going to hell for all eternity for this sin seems far fetched.

 

[LiamQ]

I think fornication is a sin but going to hell for all eternity for this sin seems far fetched.

I’m just going to respond to this, because there’s several points in your post that aren’t necessarily related to your thread title.

If one willfully chooses to be excluded from God because they just have to have sex, and if they die in that state, then not only does God permit their choice, but He permits them to suffer the punishment that their actions deserve. Offending the dignity of an infinite God results in a punishment that happens to fit that particular crime. Degree of suffering equals degree of gravity. And yes, despite some ways that modern people try to spin it, hell IS a punishment.

Now, how deep you want to go into this is dependent on how much philosophy you’re prepared to read. If you’re not willing to engage in intellectual stamina, you’re going to have to simply submit your own judgment to that of the Church without trying to fully understand her thinking. Whether or not something seems “far-fetched” to you is irrelevant. You are not the rule of faith. God is the primary rule of faith, and the Magisterium is the secondary rule of faith. Get yourself out of the center of all of that, all of this was true far before you were created.

But if you want to know, read this: catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/ev16.php.

 

[porthos11]

Can the priest report a crime revealed in confession? Why protect the sins that are against the law and do not protect society? I doubt a murderer is going to go confession or even a rapist. Probably a thief. I also do not understand the degrees of sin. Even the most holy of saints go to confession and are sinners. A total jerk can sincerely confess minutes before his death and be accepted by Gods grace into heaven. How is fornication and murder both mortal sins? I think fornication is a sin but going to hell for all eternity for this sin seems far fetched.

The seal of confession is ABSOLUTE. Meaning, no exceptions, whatsoever. Even to save a life, be it his own or that of another innocent person, or to prevent a future crime.

It goes to the importance of the Sacrament. Confession is to reconcile a sinner to God and restore him to the state of grace. More important than anything is the state of every person’s soul, even more important than the justice that can be meted out by the civil authority. If the priest were to tell, no one would confess, and then more souls will end up in hell.

This is not what God wants. Civil justice be damned, if it means the salvation of a sinner’s soul. This is not our final home; justice will always be served, if not in this life, then in the next. Hence, the Seal.

 

[Reuben_J]

A total jerk can sincerely confess minutes before his death and be accepted by Gods grace into heaven.

Too many questions but this one - is a great truth and demonstration of God’s mercy and love.

He will be no less a jerk but he will get to heaven.

Understand that, it will be easier to understand the answers to the rest of the questions.

We wish God can be the policeman as well, but for the time being, His jurisdiction in not here though what we do here will factor in our final verdict to heaven.

 

[CRATUS]

Too many questions but this one - is a great truth and demonstration of God’s mercy and love.

He will be no less a jerk but he will get to heaven.

Understand that, it will be easier to understand the answers to the rest of the questions.

We wish God can be the policeman as well, but for the time being, His jurisdiction in not here though what we do here will factor in our final verdict to heaven.

Leave judgment to God ultimately. Judge not lest you be judged. It is interesting I seem to only understand scripture through personal experience. It is difficult for me to understand the ways of the Lord often until I feel it. Feelings are not the best thing to judge ourselves on. It seems odd that God does not justify sin ever but He is always willing to forgive. Why does God become upset with us for sinning if it is ultimately in our nature?

 

[CRATUS]

Perhaps I should not try to understand everything it can give me a headache.

 

[Reuben_J]

Leave judgment to God ultimately. Judge not lest you be judged. It is interesting I seem to only understand scripture through personal experience. It is difficult for me to understand the ways of the Lord often until I feel it. Feelings are not the best thing to judge ourselves on. It seems odd that God does not justify sin ever but He is always willing to forgive. Why does God become upset with us for sinning if it is ultimately in our nature?

Because we have a choice.

There is something called covenant. We do not exist by accident but by the good pleasure of the Creator. We owe our existence and providence to God; but on our part, we have to follow His laws. We, however, have choices.

Our choices have consequences but they do not, in any ways, change the character of God.

 

[LethalMouse]

What would a struggling person do if they knew the seal of confrssion were of danger? Would they confess and seek guidance or recoil in fear? Would they seek redemtion or fear destruction?

You say hell yields fear. Yet does not the means to salvation mean we have an option that is without fear? An option with love, direction, and understanding?

I doubt a murderer is going to go confession or even a rapist.

Yeah some do and they by the nature of confession have a chance.

Look up saint Moses the Black as a quick example of what true reconciliation can offer.

 

[CRATUS]

Because we have a choice.

There is something called covenant. We do not exist by accident but by the good pleasure of the Creator. We owe our existence and providence to God; but on our part, we have to follow His laws. We, however, have choices.

Our choices have consequences but they do not, in any ways, change the character of God.

Agreed with choice. I am learning it is ultimately not in our power to make the right choices if that makes any sense. I thought people who were very logical would never sin. They too fall into pride. For whatever reason each person has some form of weakness and blindspot. The best we can do is fight it. I do not expect anyone to be thoroughly sinless that is a heavy burden to carry honestly. Why punish us if even if we tried our best we would fall short?

 

[pianistclare]

Agreed with choice. I am learning it is ultimately not in our power to make the right choices if that makes any sense. I thought people who were very logical would never sin. They too fall into pride. For whatever reason each person has some form of weakness and blindspot. The best we can do is fight it. I do not expect anyone to be thoroughly sinless that is a heavy burden to carry honestly. Why punish us if even if we tried our best we would fall short?

It is in our power to make the right choice.
Unless of course, we are selfish.

 

[CRATUS]

It is in our power to make the right choice.
Unless of course, we are selfish.

I say yes and no. Why can’t we be perfect if it is indeed possible? Maybe we do not know enough or any better. I think if a Christian tried their best they could overcome many sins. Is t that the point of Christ death? Being born a sinner does not excuse poor behavior ever but it should not be a surprise when you or others fail or perhaps choose to fail. This whole debate is circular to me.

 

[1ke]

Can the priest report a crime revealed in confession?

No.

 

[1ke]

I say yes and no. Why can’t we be perfect if it is indeed possible? Maybe we do not know enough or any better. I think if a Christian tried their best they could overcome many sins. Is t that the point of Christ death? Being born a sinner does not excuse poor behavior ever but it should not be a surprise when you or others fail or perhaps choose to fail. This whole debate is circular to me.

In reviewing many of your questions, I encourage you to talk to a priest in real life. They types of questions and doubts you have are ill suited to this medium. You need a relationship with a trusted priest to help you work through things in a systematic way.

 

[phil19034]

Can the priest report a crime revealed in confession? Why protect the sins that are against the law and do not protect society?

No. A priest cannot report a crime. From a legal point of view, it’s called Clergy-Penitent Privilege. In a society, one of the ways to change is to show repentance. The Clergy-Penitent Privilege laws protect the clergy from having to report something they hear in confession. The reason is that way they come to confession. A criminal coming to confession could lead to them changing their lives and to turn away from crime. So society has an interest in allowing people to freely go to confession (Catholic or otherwise) to confess their sins.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest–penitent_privilege

In regards to the seal of confession, the Catholic Church believes that the trust between penitent and priest must be upheld to insure people will confess even the most terrible crimes.

This is very similar to the Attorney-Client Privilege. An attorney can loose his law license if he breaks the attorney-client privilege. So the concepts are very similar.

With that said, a priest might counsel a confessee to turn himself in, but he can’t make that the penance. And if the priest knows the person, he might keep a “close eye” on him the help bring the person back to the good. Also, if the person is having trouble with child porn, etc, the priest might even instruct that person to stay away from the children in his parish as part of the penance, but he can’t report it.

It’s can be very though situation for a priest, but thankfully those situations are not the norm for most.

 

[Upgrade25]

No. A priest cannot report a crime. From a legal point of view, it’s called Clergy-Penitent Privilege. In a society, one of the ways to change is to show repentance. The Clergy-Penitent Privilege laws protect the clergy from having to report something they hear in confession. The reason is that way they come to confession. A criminal coming to confession could lead to them changing their lives and to turn away from crime. So society has an interest in allowing people to freely go to confession (Catholic or otherwise) to confess their sins.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest–penitent_privilege

In regards to the seal of confession, the Catholic Church believes that the trust between penitent and priest must be upheld to insure people will confess even the most terrible crimes.

This is very similar to the Attorney-Client Privilege. An attorney can loose his law license if he breaks the attorney-client privilege. So the concepts are very similar.

With that said, a priest might counsel a confessee to turn himself in, but he can’t make that the penance. And if the priest knows the person, he might keep a “close eye” on him the help bring the person back to the good. Also, if the person is having trouble with child porn, etc, the priest might even instruct that person to stay away from the children in his parish as part of the penance, but he can’t report it.

It’s can be very though situation for a priest, but thankfully those situations are not the norm for most.

Can’t the priest say that “I won’t turn you in, but you should examine whether you are truly contrite if you are not willing to pay for your crime.” Also, if the privilege were broken initially for just reasons, the government could press priests to tell them about penitents who licitly disobeyed laws but perhaps confessed a sin they committed related to the just disobedience.

 

[CRATUS]

In reviewing many of your questions, I encourage you to talk to a priest in real life. They types of questions and doubts you have are ill suited to this medium. You need a relationship with a trusted priest to help you work through things in a systematic way.

I thought so. There is askapriest.org

 

[porthos11]

Can’t the priest say that “I won’t turn you in, but you should examine whether you are truly contrite if you are not willing to pay for your crime.” Also, if the privilege were broken initially for just reasons, the government could press priests to tell them about penitents who licitly disobeyed laws but perhaps confessed a sin they committed related to the just disobedience.

There is no such thing as the privilege or the Seal being broken justly. There is no just reason for the Seal to be broken, ever. This is punishable by the priest being excommunicated, stripped of his faculties and sent to a monastery for a life of prayer and penance for the rest of his life.

And contrition for a crime is not the same as being willing to go to prison, or even the gallows for it. No one is ever required to out himself to victims or society, only that proper reparation is made, whenever possible and which can be done in secret. For anything serious such as murder, a proper penance should be imposed, probably a severe regimen of prayer, service or reparation, but it does not need to have anything to do with the police or prison. Confessors know this and are probably wise to not even suggest the penitent turning himself in.

The Church is in the business of saving souls, not facilitating human justice. If someone wants human justice, the state better make sure it has its ducks in a row, because the Church isn’t going to use her sacraments to help it make its case.

 

[phil19034]

Can’t the priest say that “I won’t turn you in, but you should examine whether you are truly contrite if you are not willing to pay for your crime.”

Not sure what you mean here. The priest can’t give a penance to turn themselves in. But if the priest doesn’t think the person is contrite, then they don’t give absolution. Now, if they do give absolution, I guess in theory, they could still give a stiff penance like 500 Rosaries or something.

Also, if the privilege were broken initially for just reasons, the government could press priests to tell them about penitents who licitly disobeyed laws but perhaps confessed a sin they committed related to the just disobedience.

Yeah… the seal is unbreakable. A priest would gladly go to jail than break the seal.

 

[pianistclare]

Cratus. A REAL. LIVE. PRIEST. In person.
Someone who will guide you, not just engage in conversation.
I feel like you get bored and come up with these questions/scenarios.
If you really want to learn about your faith, speak to a priest in real life.
Try it. It’s WAY more interesting.

 

[CRATUS]

Cratus. A REAL. LIVE. PRIEST. In person.
Someone who will guide you, not just engage in conversation.
I feel like you get bored and come up with these questions/scenarios.
If you really want to learn about your faith, speak to a priest in real life.
Try it. It’s WAY more interesting.

priests in real life are intimidating. Maybe over the phone.