Seal of Confession - Part II

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This topic was discussed once before but the thread got closed, then re-opened again. Then closed again pending apologist (name removed by moderator)ut. When looking at it this morning, it was opened again. So, I’m not exactly sure what’s going on. If for some reason this is a prohibitted subject, please advise and I will refrain from bringing it up in the future.

Otherwise, I would like to discuss this topic a little further and hear member’s opinions regarding the Catholic church’s position on the seal of confession. I am especially interested in Br. Rich SFO’s replies because of his close ties to Canon Lawyers & Judges.

That said, I was always taught that the seal of confession is absolute and the priest could not reveal what transpired during confession under NO circumstances. I present the following as my point of reference for this position …
Q:* Our grandson is attending CCD classes taught by our new pastor. Last evening, the class was told that there is one case in which the seal of confession can be broken, namely, in the case of child abuse. While this is a very serious matter, I was always taught the seal of confession is absolutely inviolable, even if the priest is threatened with being put to death. I am very concerned about this matter and I would be grateful to hear what the church teaches.*
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A: The priest is absolutely wrong. Under NO circumstances may the seal of confession be broken (cf. Canon 983 Section 1 declares: The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason. Canon 984 goes on to say: A confessor is prohibited completely from using knowledge acquired from confession to the detriment of the penitent even when any danger of revelation is excluded.); the penalty for violation of the sacramental seal is an automatic excommunication (cf. Canon 1388.).
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  • Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
    Archbishop of Denver.
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… Taken from page 151 of The Cathlic Answer Book 3 authored by the Reverend Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Ph.D., S.T.D.; ISBN: 0-87973-933-9. Publisher: Our Sunday Visitor.

Comments anyone? Discussion?
 
The seal is absolutely inviolable. “For any reason” makes it pretty clear: no exceptions.
 
Well I guess it’s down to the integrity and strength of the faith of the priests.

I know we will have a lot of faithful obedient priests thrown in jail here in Ohio as Ohio just added Child Sexual Abuse to the list that a clergy is bound by law to report.

If one is obedient to the church, they go to jail, if one is disobedient to the church to the church they get excommunicated.

It kind of puts priests between a rock and a hard place and it seems to me that in the case of child sexual abuse, the church should be more than willing to cooperate with the state by making that an exception.
 
I know we will have a lot of faithful obedient priests thrown in jail here in Ohio as Ohio just added Child Sexual Abuse to the list that a clergy is bound by law to report.
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Not necessarily, this would be a First Amendment situation , nobody is likely to go to jail .

The seal is absolute, any priest who would cooperate with this law should be thrown out of the church, no questions asked. I wouldn’t hear a mass, or give a confession, to a priest who would violate this.
 
It was presented two weeks ago on Cold Case CBS show that a priest revealed a confession because the penitant was dead???

Well I don’t think so but…
 
It was presented two weeks ago on Cold Case CBS show that a priest revealed a confession because the penitant was dead???
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In real life, I guess it could happen. But if it were found out, the priest would be out on his ear, no questions asked.

And not just out of the priesthood, out of the church. Its an automatic ex-comm.
 
posted by gelsbern

It kind of puts priests between a rock and a hard place and it seems to me that in the case of child sexual abuse, the church should be more than willing to cooperate with the state by making that an exception.
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So a priest’s job is to follow the law’s of the state and place a person’s immortal soul in jeopardy because they are too afraid to confess their mortal sin? What makes child sexual abuse any different from Rape of a woman? Murder of a child or adult ? Torture? Spousal Abuse? Why is this one mortal sin worse than a serial murderer?
 
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MariaG:
So a priest’s job is to follow the law’s of the state and place a person’s immortal soul in jeopardy because they are too afraid to confess their mortal sin? What makes child sexual abuse any different from Rape of a woman? Murder of a child or adult ? Torture? Spousal Abuse? Why is this one mortal sin worse than a serial murderer?
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Ahh I love when people add on, I made a statement regarding a single subject, I did not give my opinion on the other subjects you bring up, but now I will. To me, the rape of a woman has already been committed, the murder of a person is done, the victim is dead, however, telling state authorities is not going to save someone from something that has already happened, however, since it’s a child and they cannot protect themselves they need to be reported for the protection of future crimes against the child. Also in my opinion, a rapist or murderer should be turned in as well. Absolution in the church does not equal absolution in society.
 
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gelsbern:
Ahh I love when people add on, I made a statement regarding a single subject, I did not give my opinion on the other subjects you bring up, but now I will. To me, the rape of a woman has already been committed, the murder of a person is done, the victim is dead, however, telling state authorities is not going to save someone from something that has already happened, however, since it’s a child and they cannot protect themselves they need to be reported for the protection of future crimes against the child. Also in my opinion, a rapist or murderer should be turned in as well. Absolution in the church does not equal absolution in society.
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That’s great. A great way to see an even further decline in Catholics going to confession.

Who wants to got to confession if your priest is going to run to the cops and blab?
 
Dr. Bombay:
That’s great. A great way to see an even further decline in Catholics going to confession.

Who wants to got to confession if your priest is going to run to the cops and blab?
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Well said! A priest many times will encourage the person to go to the law. But that is it.
 
Another reason to take your sins directly to God in prayer with perfect contrition for them, and not to confession these days. You can’t be sure that the priest is going to keep them a secret. I mean…if a priest leaves the priesthood, how can you be certain that he won’t tell your sins to somebody? What is the worst that can happen to him? He would already be excommunicated.

I have heard a couple of priests talk about certain people who came to them in confession without naming names, but sharing what they confessed. I had a pretty good idea who the actual people may have been. I think a priest is a fallible human being. Only God is truly trustworthy.

Hopefully, we’ll all receive last rites just before we die and none of this will even be an issue.
 
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MariaG:
Why is this one mortal sin worse than a serial murderer?
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Here are some factors I can think of:
  1. Because ours is a sexually obsessed society.
  2. Because lawyers make a very good living out of aguing such cases.
  3. Because the politically correct want to demonstrate that gay men can never be child sex molesters since it has been precluded that they are so much more sensitive, selfless and kind than other men.
  4. Because a couple’s lives oftentimes revolve more around their children than one other. Many are single parents raising their children alone.
 
4 marks:
I mean…if a priest leaves the priesthood, how can you be certain that he won’t tell your sins to somebody? What is the worst that can happen to him? He would already be excommunicated.
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Given the importance of keeping the seal, I would bet that a seminary would vigorously weed out the type of personality that is prone to blab. Besides, it would hurt individuals, and not just the Church to blab. Most people who had it in them to be a priest wouldn’t do it.

However, I do sort of see the worry. If I ever had to confess the fifth commandment, I think I’d do far from home and in a general way.
 
Back on topic, folks.

The confessional is inviolable. Period. Any priest violating this seal is subject ot suspension a divinis.

Even the state cannot interfere in this.

An example from Portland, Oregon, a few years ago. A man being held for murder confessed to a Catholic priest. The prosecuting attorney bugged the confessional, and used this confession as evidence. The archbishop (I believe it was Vlazny, though it may have been Cardinal George during the short time he was in charge of Portland) sued the State, claiming the inviolate nature of the confessional, and the Oregon courts threw out the confession as evidence (thank God).

Since the priest had no idea the confessional was bugged, he of course was not held in any way culpable.
 
A man being held for murder confessed to a Catholic priest. The prosecuting attorney bugged the confessional, and used this confession as evidence. The archbishop (I believe it was Vlazny, though it may have been Cardinal George during the short time he was in charge of Portland) sued the State, claiming the inviolate nature of the confessional, and the Oregon courts threw out the confession as evidence (thank God).
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Since the priest had no idea the confessional was bugged, he of course was not held in any way culpable.
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Was that in an actual confessional, or just during a confession? You said he was being held (in jail?), and of course it is traditional in American jails to monitor the conservations that inmates make with visitors. Under those circumstances, it would be understandable why it was taped, if the staff of the jail didn’t realize what was going down. The confession, of course , should have and was thrown out, but it would be pretty outrageous to bug an actual confessional. The actual circumstance might not have been as outrageous.
 
There is one exception where the priest often breaks the seal of confession. When a penitent comes to the same confessor repeatedly, the confessor will use prior knowledge from past confessions to give spiritual direction. But only to the same penitent and only in the confessional. Apart from this the seal is sacred. Cannot be broken for any reason. The seal applies to anyone who hears anything in the confessional too.
 
4 marks:
Another reason to take your sins directly to God in prayer with perfect contrition for them, and not to confession these days …
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This is contrary to church teaching and even to a recent decree put out by the Pope. If one is to be a member of the Catholic faith, then one needs to accept the official teachings of the church.
 
Dr. Bombay:
That’s great. A great way to see an even further decline in Catholics going to confession.

Who wants to got to confession if your priest is going to run to the cops and blab?
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I think it would only cause a decline in murderers rapists and child sex molesters.
 
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gelsbern:
I think it would only cause a decline in murderers rapists and child sex molesters.
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How would that cause a decline? You are assuming that all rapist and child molesters would confess their sins to a priest who run to the authorities.
 
Was that in an actual confessional, or just during a confession? You said he was being held (in jail?), and of course it is traditional in American jails to monitor the conservations that inmates make with visitors. Under those circumstances, it would be understandable why it was taped, if the staff of the jail didn’t realize what was going down. The confession, of course , should have and was thrown out, but it would be pretty outrageous to bug an actual confessional. The actual circumstance might not have been as outrageous.
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This was in the county prison. However, if my memory serves me well enough, the room in which the confession was held was bugged with the purpose of catching this poor fellow confessing.

So, even though this was not in a church proper, it still stank to heaven that the state bugged a confession on purpose.
 
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