Searching for a spiritual home

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Lotharson

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Hi, I’ve already introduced myself in another post.

I’m a struggling Christian coming from an evangelical background.

I am neither persuaded by the arguments for atheism nor by those for theism, but my whole being longs after God, which I understand as the most perfect being who exists.

Without God and an afterlife, existence seems to be a gigantic farce, as French existensialist philosophers expressed it. The thought that oblivion is the fate of all things is extremly depressing.

I’ve left evangelicalism behind after I’ve realized the Bible CANNOT be the infallible, inerrant word of God. It’s impossible that a loving, perfect God ordered soldiers to slaughter babies and pregnant women. It’s impossible hev wished people to pray to him that the small children of their foes will be trown and crushed upon rock, like in the imprecatory psalms.

Once I talked about these problems with an evengalical pastor, he told me I have to believe in the historicity of the amalekite genocide inrder to be a consistent Christian. He told me they got what they deserved (which is of course nonsensical for babies in the womb of their mothers).
What is more, he also believes that God determines everything, and that he pre-determined the amalekites to act in a bad way, according to the´teaching of Calvinism.
So, these people adore a God who predetermined many people to act badly, and not only punish them but also their innocent children.
I know this sounds very provocative, but I’m growing convinced that many evangelicals don’t worship a good God but an evil demon.

Yet, my longing after God remains the same.

I went to a Catholic church with modern music and rather young people, and I felt really welcome there. Almost all of them believe that God didn’t order the slaughter of a whole people and think either that the writer got the Almighty wrong, or that the tale is purely allogerical.

But I’m still actively searching a foundation for my faith, a solid ground where I can stand.

I don’t like liberal protestant churches because they almost completely rule out the existence of the supernatural.

I do believe we’ve rather good grounds for believing in non-human intelligent beings interacting with us from the very beginning, and that they are extremely deceptive and at times even malevolent.

Currently, I don’t experience anything at all with Jesus but I wish I could.

Do you believe there exists a good Christian church for a doubting person like myself who strongly desires God?

Many thanks for your answers!

For those interested in apolgetics and philosophy, I’m currently exposing the mistakes of both fundamentalists and militant atheists on my blog, while trying to always stay honest.

Lothar’s son - Lothars Sohn
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/
 
Welcome to the forum my friend. The so called problem of evil and the Old Testament is something that really needs to be studied and researched .
Let me give you a scenario my friend . Imagine if the caananite babies that were slaughtered were allowed to grow up . They not only would have grown up to sacrifice babies like their fathers and mothers did but they would have eventually infected the Hebrews with these evil ways.

Now where do you think these babies are right now, if the God we worship is not only all wise and all good but all merciful and all just. They would be with him in heaven since they were innocent as children, but imagine if they had grown up and started sacrificing babies to their pagan gods, where do u think they might be now?
This sounds like the all loving all just and all merciful God I know to bring those innocent children home to him.

As far as there being nothing, take a look at veridical Nde’s and you can see plenty evidence of the soul surviving after physical death.

Your right Calvinism reduces God to a tyrant dictator. This is not the God I know of as a Catholic.

But you also should start reading the apostolic fathers (the students of the apostles) and the early church fathers after them to see how they were taught by the apostles of the early Church how to interprete scripture, but Catholics also believe that the bible is the word of God, but don’t believe the bible alone is the full deposit of Faith. We have sacred scripture, sacred tradition and the magisterium of the church to guide us in understanding the word of God.

Remember when paul was preaching to the Corinthian Church he to,d the to follow what he preached either by his written word (sacred scripture) and his oral teachings (sacred tradition).

Our lord desires that all men be saved .

I will check out ur site later this week.

God bless you my friend 🙂
 
Hey my friend, doubting is ok but you have the most I portent ingredient, as you said you desire God with all of your being. That is what he asks of you first, God will take care of the rest 🙂
God desires all to come to him, and he rejoices in people like u most because as he said if a Shepard loses one sheep he will leave the flock and go out and find that lost sheep and when he finds him his joy will be more than the joy he has with the sheep that are allready with him.
He loves you my friend and he knows every part of you.

Did he not say seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened to you?
Your desire to know him and believe is what he desires most from you. He will eventually come to you in a way you can’t possibly imagine now 🙂
 
Hello, I am a newbie here myself.

It sounds as if you are struggling very deeply. Prayer is a key, and I would talk to a priest or experienced clergy who can address your questions in a good way.

I will close with this bit of advice: Seek peace as you go. Arguing with Atheists and Fundamentalists is not the best way to achieve this.

God be with you on your journey.
 
It’s impossible that a loving, perfect God ordered soldiers to slaughter babies and pregnant women.
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What this says to us TODAY, is the importance of rooting out evil, completely and without mercy.

The writers of the OT did not have Christianity to guide them, nor were they ready for it. They were products of their own primitive cultures.

It is historically wrong to judge bygone ages by the standards of today.

Now you may object that God was urging this evil. And so He was. But remember that life here on earth is not our final destination. But again, it is wrong to judge God by the standards of today when viewing His dispensation upon a primitive culture. For that matter, it is just plain wrong to judge God at all! His ways are far above our ways, and His reasonings are far deeper than our reasonings.

Anyhow, there are definitely things in the Bible that are shocking. But if you search deeper I think you will find that there is a good and positive interpretation for the things we read.

The thing to remember about Catholicism is that it is the MOST biblical religion! It takes the Bible far more literally and completely than any of the fundamentalists or other Evangelicals. Don’t give up on the Bible because you are struggling with difficult passages. Pass over them for now, and concentrate on what speaks to your own heart.
 
Lotharson said:
.

I am neither persuaded by the arguments for atheism nor by those for theism, but my whole being longs after God, which I understand as the most perfect being who exists.

lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/
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I’d like to comment on this. When you say God is the most perfect being who exists–it makes God just one being among many possible beings. God is not a being but rather being itself.

Peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Lotharson said:
Hi, I’ve already introduced myself in another post.

I’m a struggling Christian coming from an evangelical background.

I am neither persuaded by the arguments for atheism nor by those for theism, but my whole being longs after God, which I understand as the most perfect being who exists.

Without God and an afterlife, existence seems to be a gigantic farce, as French existensialist philosophers expressed it. The thought that oblivion is the fate of all things is extremly depressing.

I’ve left evangelicalism behind after I’ve realized the Bible CANNOT be the infallible, inerrant word of God. It’s impossible that a loving, perfect God ordered soldiers to slaughter babies and pregnant women. It’s impossible hev wished people to pray to him that the small children of their foes will be trown and crushed upon rock, like in the imprecatory psalms.

Once I talked about these problems with an evengalical pastor, he told me I have to believe in the historicity of the amalekite genocide inrder to be a consistent Christian. He told me they got what they deserved (which is of course nonsensical for babies in the womb of their mothers).
What is more, he also believes that God determines everything, and that he pre-determined the amalekites to act in a bad way, according to the´teaching of Calvinism.
So, these people adore a God who predetermined many people to act badly, and not only punish them but also their innocent children.
I know this sounds very provocative, but I’m growing convinced that many evangelicals don’t worship a good God but an evil demon.

Yet, my longing after God remains the same.

I went to a Catholic church with modern music and rather young people, and I felt really welcome there. Almost all of them believe that God didn’t order the slaughter of a whole people and think either that the writer got the Almighty wrong, or that the tale is purely allogerical.

But I’m still actively searching a foundation for my faith, a solid ground where I can stand.

I don’t like liberal protestant churches because they almost completely rule out the existence of the supernatural.

I do believe we’ve rather good grounds for believing in non-human intelligent beings interacting with us from the very beginning, and that they are extremely deceptive and at times even malevolent.

Currently, I don’t experience anything at all with Jesus but I wish I could.

Do you believe there exists a good Christian church for a doubting person like myself who strongly desires God?

Many thanks for your answers!

For those interested in apolgetics and philosophy, I’m currently exposing the mistakes of both fundamentalists and militant atheists on my blog, while trying to always stay honest.

Lothar’s son - Lothars Sohn
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/
Click to expand...
Read this, you find it satisfying.

christianthinktank.com/qamorite.html
 
Hi, thanks for your answers folks!

I agree that it is dumb to judge the behavior of people from the past according to our present moral and empirical knowledge.
The New Atheists keep doing that, and this makes sound them very unscientific and at times even silly.

Nevertheless, I’m still convinced that God has to be perfect in order for Him to be God.

And a perfect,omnipotent and omniscient being doesn’t need to order soldiers to kill babies and pregnant women for “rooting out evil”.

And it is extremely suscpicious that the justification given for the divine genocides is so similar to those of neighboring pagan nations.

Regards.

Lothar Sohn - Lothar’s son

lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
 
Lotharson said:
Hi, I’ve already introduced myself in another post.

I’m a struggling Christian coming from an evangelical background.

I am neither persuaded by the arguments for atheism nor by those for theism, but my whole being longs after God, which I understand as the most perfect being who exists.

Without God and an afterlife, existence seems to be a gigantic farce, as French existensialist philosophers expressed it. The thought that oblivion is the fate of all things is extremly depressing.

I’ve left evangelicalism behind after I’ve realized the Bible CANNOT be the infallible, inerrant word of God. It’s impossible that a loving, perfect God ordered soldiers to slaughter babies and pregnant women. It’s impossible hev wished people to pray to him that the small children of their foes will be trown and crushed upon rock, like in the imprecatory psalms.

Once I talked about these problems with an evengalical pastor, he told me I have to believe in the historicity of the amalekite genocide inrder to be a consistent Christian. He told me they got what they deserved (which is of course nonsensical for babies in the womb of their mothers).
What is more, he also believes that God determines everything, and that he pre-determined the amalekites to act in a bad way, according to the´teaching of Calvinism.
So, these people adore a God who predetermined many people to act badly, and not only punish them but also their innocent children.
I know this sounds very provocative, but I’m growing convinced that many evangelicals don’t worship a good God but an evil demon.

Yet, my longing after God remains the same.

I went to a Catholic church with modern music and rather young people, and I felt really welcome there. Almost all of them believe that God didn’t order the slaughter of a whole people and think either that the writer got the Almighty wrong, or that the tale is purely allogerical.

But I’m still actively searching a foundation for my faith, a solid ground where I can stand.

I don’t like liberal protestant churches because they almost completely rule out the existence of the supernatural.

I do believe we’ve rather good grounds for believing in non-human intelligent beings interacting with us from the very beginning, and that they are extremely deceptive and at times even malevolent.

Currently, I don’t experience anything at all with Jesus but I wish I could.

Do you believe there exists a good Christian church for a doubting person like myself who strongly desires God?

Many thanks for your answers!

For those interested in apolgetics and philosophy, I’m currently exposing the mistakes of both fundamentalists and militant atheists on my blog, while trying to always stay honest.

Lothar’s son - Lothars Sohn
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/
Click to expand...
You may find it comforting that many Jews attach a metaphorical meaning to many of the stories in the OT. Not all of the bible is to be taken literally, for sure. TRUST.
 
Lotharson said:
Hi, I’ve already introduced myself in another post.

I’m a struggling Christian coming from an evangelical background.
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Welcome - - Sorry that I am coming to this thread so late…I find your journey to be very interesting in that in some respects it mirrors my own.
So - Lat or not…I hope I may offer something useful to you.
I am neither persuaded by the arguments for atheism nor by those for theism, but my whole being longs after God, which I understand as the most perfect being who exists.
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This is excellent…But…We can even take this further and say that God is not a being, but is “being” itself. When Moses asked God for His name, the reply was , I AM who AM.
you might find THIS short clip very interesting…
Without God and an afterlife, existence seems to be a gigantic farce, as French existentialist philosophers expressed it. The thought that oblivion is the fate of all things is extremely depressing.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
I’ve left evangelicalism behind after I’ve realized the Bible CANNOT be the infallible, inerrant word of God.
Click to expand...
Completely agree that the bible cannot be said to be infallible. If it were there would not be so many disagreements.
To me - infallibility requires the interaction of the reader (and the spirit guiding the reader) and that which is read.
I do think that the bible is inerrant - that it does not contain error - but this does not mean that everything in the bible is necessarily 100% historically accurate either. There are so many layers to this…that one can spend a lifetime studying, discussing and discovering.
It’s impossible that a loving, perfect God ordered soldiers to slaughter babies and pregnant women. It’s impossible hev wished people to pray to him that the small children of their foes will be trown and crushed upon rock, like in the imprecatory psalms
Click to expand...
.
Others have mentioned that we should not impose our outlook on the ancients. Likewise we cannot know what the spiritual capabilities were of those born before the incarnation of Christ - OR how thoroughly evil (or not) those slated for destruction may actually have been…We just cannot know. Then too as others have said…the stories might be more allegorical.

If I may offer a slightly different perspective on this. Some of the problem contained in this comes from a very limited spiritual world view.

For us, living under the new covenant and believing as we do in a Just and Merciful God and hoping in life everlasting, we do our God an injustice by limiting ourselves and our views to this temporal life and the fate of the corporeal bodies and existence of any person.
I don’t mean to sound harsh here…but God is greater than this short and temporary existence…and our hope, indeed our faith is predicated on much more.

So - IF for whatever reason - God found it necessary to order the destruction of some peoples - including children and pregnant women - for what specific reason we cannot know…we can and should be POSITIVE that God dealt with each and all individually and in a a way that was both merciful and just and in accordance with His law of Love when they came to judgement.
Once I talked about these problems with an evengalical pastor, he told me I have to believe in the historicity of the amalekite genocide inrder to be a consistent Christian. He told me they got what they deserved (which is of course nonsensical for babies in the womb of their mothers).
What is more, he also believes that God determines everything, and that he pre-determined the amalekites to act in a bad way, according to the´teaching of Calvinism.
So, these people adore a God who predetermined many people to act badly, and not only punish them but also their innocent children.
I know this sounds very provocative, but I’m growing convinced that many evangelicals don’t worship a good God but an evil demon.
Click to expand...
Well - Much of what the pastor was expressing was the need for faith.
I think that what troubles you so is that many times there is a separating of faith from the underlying and core principle of Love that is spoken of in the NT.
You are blessed in this - even though it is troubling you right now. God will guide you.
Yet, my longing after God remains the same.
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Yes - God can be most persistent in His pursuit of us. Keep listening…Keep longing…keep asking…

(Cont)
 
(Cont)
I went to a Catholic church with modern music and rather young people, and I felt really welcome there. Almost all of them believe that God didn’t order the slaughter of a whole people and think either that the writer got the Almighty wrong, or that the tale is purely allogerical.
Click to expand...
This is not surprising. For the Catholic, the bottom line on this is not whether it is historically true or not…For the Catholic it is (or should be) much more about looking forward and living in Love.
But I’m still actively searching a foundation for my faith, a solid ground where I can stand.
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If I may make so bold…Begin with the most foundational principle of the faith…the root and core of the Law and the prophets (Mt 22:36-40)…the single great command from Christ (John 13:34-35)…the factor without which even faith is useless (1 Cor 13:1-13) because this single item is the very essence of God (1 John 4:7-8).
Start with and cling to Agape (selfless brotherly) Love
Currently, I don’t experience anything at all with Jesus but I wish I could.
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Actually I think that you are experiencing more than you currently recognize.
Do you believe there exists a good Christian church for a doubting person like myself who strongly desires God?
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Absolutely. I believe the Catholic Church is just such a Church…We all have doubts from time to time on this idea or that…Not to mention the fact that there some teachings and ideas that are just too deep for most of us in the pew…
But ultimately Love remains foundational.
Many thanks for your answers!
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You are welcome - I hope I’ve been some little help.

Peace
James
 
Hey James, we definitely seem to agree about quite a few things!

To my mind, the very idea that God has to be perfect is fundamental to my theology.

And I believe that humans can recognize intuitively that love is what truly matters, it is just that they all too often suppress this knowledge.

I understand the wrath of God as flowing from his love, like the wrath of good parents when their son misbehaves towards their daughter.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son

lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
 
Lotharson said:
Hey James, we definitely seem to agree about quite a few things!
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I thought we might. I suspect too that we both like to keep things as simple as possible. 👍
To my mind, the very idea that God has to be perfect is fundamental to my theology.
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Indeed. Add to this the fact that God, if He is to be THE God cannot be defined by humans or in human terms.
Having long considered these things and and pondered on the idea of “love” and “perfection”…It comes to me that all that is love and all that is perfection is also all that is creative.
Put another way…Love might be thought of as THE creative force in and of the universe and all that is in it.
And I believe that humans can recognize intuitively that love is what truly matters, it is just that they all too often suppress this knowledge.
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Amen -
We too often either suppress this intuitive knowledge, or we allow our “reactions” to govern us.
I understand the wrath of God as flowing from his love, like the wrath of good parents when their son misbehaves towards their daughter.
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Yes I think that this is a very large component of how God works with us.
We cannot fully understand these things but they do flow from Love.

Peace
James
 
You may find some value in attending RCIA as an Inquirer to the faith. The classes cover much of what is in the CCC (the Catechism of the Catholic Church) - here is a LINK to it. You can attend without commitment to join (speaking from my own experience). The Church you have already visited may host such a program of instruction.

I have found that when I have questions about a doctrine of faith, that going to the CCC or the Compendium (at the same link), I can track back to the original references for myself and see what went into it in the first place. Very helpful.

Best wishes in your search.
 
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