Seceeding from the Union

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stevegravy said:
If ¾ of the state legislatures petition for a constitutional convention, it must happen. At that convention several things could happen, a new constitution redefining federal and state sovereignties, dissolution of the existing country with each state an independent sovereignty. If than ¾ of the states ratify the new constitution it is a done deal, as far as any secessionist movement goes that is what must happen. Except Texas, which by treaty has an option out, I think. After that, the country or countries may reform along any agreeable associations they like to form.
My :twocents:
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A constitutional convention is a HORRIBLE IDEA given the state of our crop of politicians who will codify in our constitution all kinds of socialism and Marxism. The congress will elect all kinds of really horrible delegates to the con-con who will propose and vote for garbage.
 
andrewstx said:
If you move to a secceded Texas you better be rich, can afford to pay for your own health care, and get an good job in the “ahl biddness” (oil business) becuse no one else makes much money in Texas, and prepare to join the unifficial state religion of Texas, the Southern Baptist Church.
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Texas ranchers would beg to differ.

Edit: Those petitions should be taken with a grain of salt. I see that there is one for Iowa and the majority of “signatures” are from those outside of Iowa. So anyone can sign despite being asked for your zip code upon registration.
 
Pat_Albertson said:
All (yes, all) 50 states and the District of Columbia have a petition to secede: All 50 States begin online petitions to secede from U.S.

we petition the obama administration to: Peacefully grant District of Columbia to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government

Edit: I don’t think anything has been written for Puerto Rico or places like Guam, because I can’t find anything on them . . . so far . . . :rolleyes:
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Puerto Rico just voted in an island-wide referendum on statehood… and there’s a petition on the White House site asking Congress to act on PR’s desire to become a state.
 
andrewstx said:
If you move to a secceded Texas you better be rich, can afford to pay for your own health care, and get an good job in the “ahl biddness” (oil business) becuse no one else makes much money in Texas, and prepare to join the unifficial state religion of Texas, the Southern Baptist Church.
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There was a funny column yesterday at the Daily Caller about the possibility of Texas seceding, and why Texas is the only state that is possibly positioned to do so: dailycaller.com/2012/11/13/secession-yall-why-texas-can-pull-it-off/

Interesting fact from the column is that while the treaty admitting Texas as a state isn’t fully clear about Texas’ ability to secede, it does reserve to Texas the right to divide itself into up to 5 states, without further federal approval. Imagine if Texas got 10 senators instead of just 2, and increased electoral votes to boot! That could bring about some political change without any need to talk about silly things like secession. 😉
 
AnastasiaRomano said:
There was a funny column yesterday at the Daily Caller about the possibility of Texas seceding, and why Texas is the only state that is possibly positioned to do so: dailycaller.com/2012/11/13/secession-yall-why-texas-can-pull-it-off/

Interesting fact from the column is that while the treaty admitting Texas as a state isn’t fully clear about Texas’ ability to secede, it does reserve to Texas the right to divide itself into up to 5 states, without further federal approval. Imagine if Texas got 10 senators instead of just 2, and increased electoral votes to boot! That could bring about some political change without any need to talk about silly things like secession. 😉
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Except we’d lose our identity as Texas.

Also, our fire-engine red orientation would be diluted, badly depending on how the borders were drawn. The new state holding Austin and Dallas would go blue. So would the one holding Laredo, the Valley and San Antonio. The ones around Houston and El Paso would become swing states.

So, there’d be no TX any more, and politically it would be a wash. Not worth it.

ICXC NIKA
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
How hard is it, or would it be, for a single malcontent to start multiple petitions? Once multiple petitions were started, does it prevent someone from signing all petitions?

Did you know there is another petition requesting all that sign secession petitions be deported? There’s another petition, ‘Strip Citizenship from Everyone Who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them.’

Remember Occupy Wall Street?’ I remember how unpatriotic people on these forums referred to that group. :rolleyes:

A petition, for anything, is easy to start, whether it has validity or not.
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the fact is, some are getting a lot of signatures. as you have stated there is another petition to counter these. That’s the primordial ooze of conflict.
talk down to me if it boosts your ego …but understand I see this as a festering mess on many fronts. Like an abscess, the immune system may or may not win the battle. If it loses, and it can, parts start falling off and flesh rots.
It might be time to think about what we will do if states do in fact fall away.
figure out how to give safe harbor to fleeing residents of a fallen state? and if its our own state, stand firm or bail out? will it be under conflict?
it might be good to have at least a rough plan to enact if it does happen.
We are in this car together, and I think the driver might be stoned.
 
TurboLover336 said:
the fact is, some are getting a lot of signatures. as you have stated there is another petition to counter these. That’s the primordial ooze of conflict.
talk down to me if it boosts your ego …but understand I see this as a festering mess on many fronts. Like an abscess, the immune system may or may not win the battle. If it loses, and it can, parts start falling off and flesh rots.
It might be time to think about what we will do if states do in fact fall away.
figure out how to give safe harbor to fleeing residents of a fallen state? and if its our own state, stand firm or bail out? will it be under conflict?
it might be good to have at least a rough plan to enact if it does happen.
We are in this car together, and I think the driver might be stoned.
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Remember, the USA is a political body. And limbs don’t fall off a body, unless it is at best, dying.

ICXC NIKA
 
AnastasiaRomano said:
Puerto Rico just voted in an island-wide referendum on statehood… and there’s a petition on the White House site asking Congress to act on PR’s desire to become a state.
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Well, what I meant was that I haven’t seen a secession petition for Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. I am expecting that sooner or later it will be possible to find something a ‘secessionist’ has written that also asks for PR to ‘secede’.

I think people should remember that this is a ‘stunt’, a form of protest, not something that will actually result in secession. The White House probably doesn’t have the power to grant secession to even one state, let alone all 50, 51, 52, or whatever, depending on whether you count places like Puerto Rico, DC, Guam, etc.

This is a way to ‘stick it to’ the administration, to show that there are lots of very angry people out there, people angry about the debt, the HHS mandate, illegal immigration, weird overvotes, etc.

None of this petition stuff has the force of law, except where an Executive Order is actually within the scope of the powers of the Executive as granted by the Constitution, and previous Courts, and Congressional lawmakers.
 
Pat_Albertson said:
I think people should remember that this is a ‘stunt’, a form of protest, not something that will actually result in secession. The White House probably doesn’t have the power to grant secession . . . .
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It surely is a stunt as you say, but the point is that the discussion is taken more seriously and by more people than ever before.

I have to disagree about the white house. Since the constitution says nothing about how or if a state can leave, it seems the law is up in the air. Further, even if the constitution explicitly said no state could ever leave, that would be of no force for a state that decided the federal usurpations had crossed the line.

Squiggles on a piece of paper written 225 years ago by dead people could hardly bind people today who were determined to leave. In that case, it really would come down to the whim of the man in the white house, who could decide–as Lincoln once did–whether to let them leave or to force them back by conquest.

The Supreme Court and Congress might have something to say about legality, but that would have no effect on a seceding state unless the president was willing to commit the necessary violence to force the seceding state back into the . . . ahem . . . “union.”
 
Reep said:
It surely is a stunt as you say, but the point is that the discussion is taken more seriously and by more people than ever before.

I have to disagree about the white house. Since the constitution says nothing about how or if a state can leave, it seems the law is up in the air. Further, even if the constitution explicitly said no state could ever leave, that would be of no force for a state that decided the federal usurpations had crossed the line.

Squiggles on a piece of paper written 225 years ago by dead people could hardly bind people today who were determined to leave. In that case, it really would come down to the whim of the man in the white house, who could decide–as Lincoln once did–whether to let them leave or to force them back by conquest.

The Supreme Court and Congress might have something to say about legality, but that would have no effect on a seceding state unless the president was willing to commit the necessary violence to force the seceding state back into the . . . ahem . . . “union.”
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With all due respect, I think you are mixing apples and oranges. While you are no doubt right in most of what you have said, you seem to have forgotten the fact that most (or perhaps all) of these petitions have the word peacefully in them. That in itself is sort of a clue as to what will happen. I could be wrong, I’m no expert, but that’s my take on it. I don’t think anybody will go to war over this particular episode.

Just my :twocents:.
 
Pat_Albertson said:
With all due respect, I think you are mixing apples and oranges. While you are no doubt right in most of what you have said, you seem to have forgotten the fact that most (or perhaps all) of these petitions have the word peacefully in them. That in itself is sort of a clue as to what will happen. I could be wrong, I’m no expert, but that’s my take on it. I don’t think anybody will go to war over this particular episode.

Just my :twocents:.
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Hi Pat. I know the petitions say “peacefully,” and if a state was going to secede, the most desireable way would be for all parties to legally agree that they could leave. If a state just left the club on its own initiative and without permission, I think it would still be “peaceful” as long neither side chose to use force on the other.
 
If say Texas seceded from the USA what would stop Austin from seceding from Texas?
 
With all of this hoopla…

Unless I did the math wrong, less than half of a percent of the population of Texas have signed this petition. It’s not as big a deal as people are saying.
 
tomarin said:
If say Texas seceded from the USA what would stop Austin from seceding from Texas?
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Other than it’s physically in the center of it, not much.

That’s why the whole idea is crazy.

I mean… ALL fifty states!!! Half of whom voted for BHO??? How could ALL of them want to secede now???

This is clearly just a stunt.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
That’s why the whole idea is crazy.

I mean… ALL fifty states!!! Half of whom voted for BHO??? How could ALL of them want to secede now???

This is clearly just a stunt.
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I’m sure states that voted for BHO would be happy to be rid of the South which they constantly insult as backwards, ignorant and racist despite insisting on moving here so that they can complain about how it isn’t like back home.

I would imagine the states would form regional confederacies. This would increase subsidiarity and be a good thing.

I can’t speak for other people but I would be very happy if my state seceded from the Union. I have wanted that for over a decade. For me it is not a stunt at all. Asking President Obama to grant this might be a stunt since no president would let Americans go without trying to kill them first and you could argue he does not have the power, but when has that ever stopped branch of the government.
 
=Ana v;9998766]I’m interested in reading your opinions, moral analysis I mean, on secession, as a solution/response to the crisis in the United States (its societal evils , economic failing, political attacks on religious freedom, and militarism).
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Is this incompatible with the principle that we are, in general, to obey government authorities?
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NO!

Here is what God [and thgerefore we ourselves ought to go by]

God First

Family second

Work Third

Our Moral obligation is to ONLY FOLLOW MORAL directives! Amen:thumbsup:

abortion

“marrried” same sex unions

Usurption of America’s religious freedoms

ARE ALL INRINSIC EVILS THAT WE [no Catholic and NO Christian] CAN NEVER SUPPORT.:gopray2:

Where can I sigh up?

God Bless,
pat /PJM
 
GEddie said:
Other than it’s physically in the center of it, not much.

That’s why the whole idea is crazy.

I mean… ALL fifty states!!! Half of whom voted for BHO??? How could ALL of them want to secede now???

This is clearly just a stunt.

ICXC NIKA
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“clearly” might be a poor choice of word.
if you look at the election results at the precinct level, its the densely populated areas such as LA, Minneapolis, Chicago and similar that leveraged their respective states toward BHO
there is a rural vs urban divide behind it.
there have also been rumors of the election being fixed to feed this issue, to include reports of voters in Cincinnati being turned away for already having cast absentee ballots. True or not … its gas for the flames none the less.
so clearly this is murky, and we can’t really say for certain if its grown legs or not. but it sure seems to be trying to.
 
TurboLover336 said:
“clearly” might be a poor choice of word.
if you look at the election results at the precinct level, its the densely populated areas such as LA, Minneapolis, Chicago and similar that leveraged their respective states toward BHO
there is a rural vs urban divide behind it.
there have also been rumors of the election being fixed to feed this issue, to include reports of voters in Cincinnati being turned away for already having cast absentee ballots. True or not … its gas for the flames none the less.
so clearly this is murky, and we can’t really say for certain if its grown legs or not. but it sure seems to be trying to.
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Ok, but this just shows that the movement is not originating at the state level. It is a grassroots stunt, and it would not surprise me if half of it were originating from outside each state.

Secessionism as a rural-vs. urban conflict makes zero sense. If you somehow created new nations that were entirely rural, these places would at once sink below third world status.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Secessionism as a rural-vs. urban conflict makes zero sense. If you somehow created new nations that were entirely rural, these places would at once sink below third world status.
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Why would rural areas suddenly become third world? What do you mean by third world? If you mean poor then they are no poorer then when they were part of the US.
 
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