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Jake1
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I know of one person who has had two annulments. To answer youe question on if you have grounds for another one is up to the Church. I do wish you the best. May God bless you
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LeahInancsi
Guest
I understand EXACTLY what an annulment is. Annulments are being used in the same manner that divorce is used in the secular world.
You’ve recommended this book to me in the past, but it doesn’t change my opinion.
Again, I say, one of these days a person has to be responsible and be accountable. It can’t always be the other guys fault. If a person is that easily decieved, then maybe they’re not marriage material.
How many annulments should one person be allowed?
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LeahInancsi
Guest
Just as I was saying, is stupidity grounds for an annulment?
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LeahInancsi
Guest
My problem is not with you. Forgive me if it sounded that way. My problem is with the Church. If I were in your position, I’d go for the second annulment.
Old Chinese saying: Keep both eyes wide open when dating, close one eye when married.
Good luck.
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Jake1
Guest
If you mis read my reply it was not i who had 2 annuments it is some i know. i have never been married. sorry if i worded it and it sounded as though it was me.
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otm
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I read your post again and I stand by what I said. You may say that you were only speaking of your cousin, but you were speaking of your cousin in the context of his annulments, and that brings in the actions of the tribunal, which you alluded to.
If there was anything amiss, it would appear that it was amiss in at least one of the subsequent marriages as it is not at all unusual for the tribunal to place requirements on one or both parties ( and being that he was a party to each one, one wonders if there were requirements placed on him, to be fulifilled prior to another marriage, which he failed to fulfill).
In addition, there are circumstances in which an annulment is given fairly quickly, which usually have to do with failure of form. Without having facts sufficient to show that there is reason to suspect undue influence exercised on the tribunal, and either fraud or corruption, your comment is not much more than an echo of too many Protestant critics and not a few Catholic individuals who lack understanding of the process and reason for which annuments are granted, and they simple presume that the tribunal was bought off, or coerced.
The comments do not benefit anyone, as it gives scandal about a process that is legitimate, and which is usually not broadcast (the reasons for the results, that is) far and wide due to the privacy of the individuals involved in that prior marriage.
It would appear from the comments that you relate that he seems to have a flippant attitude toward the whole process. However, Without knowing a whole lot more about the circumstances of his marriages, there is no grounds to repeat the mantra that those who are rich or infuentila can get anything they want or need. That, plain and simple, impugns the credibility and integrity of the tribunal.
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Jake1
Guest
all i stated is that he got an annulment . the reasons for the second annulment was and is none of my buisness and it is and has been none of my buisness. to it gives scandall is judging where only God knows the answer to this. I have also spoke wiyh priest on this matter and I was told that it is possible to recieve 2 annulments. These are not answers that I have come up with on my own. I live in probally the most conservative catholic dioceses in the U.S. A.
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LeahInancsi
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Is it possible that SnorterLuster’s cousin was referring to non-Earthly “people” in, literally, high places?
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1ke
Guest
Well, again, this shows a total lack of understanding of what a decree of nullity is, and what church teaching is.
Have you read it?
Of course, every person is accountable for their own actions.
It is neither always, nor never. In between there lies “sometimes it is the other guy’s fault”.
I sincerely hope that you are never in such a position to find out how some people can be deceived “so easily”.
Each case is decided on its own merits. Each case is independent of any other case.
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1ke
Guest
If you know EXACTLY what an annulment is, then you already know the answer to this and all other questions you have been asking here-- or at least you should.
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Jake1
Guest
people are so quick to judge
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cameron_lansing
Guest
The priest was correct. There is a right to clarify one’s marital status according to the Church, and to put forth a petition so that the truth might be discovered by a competent tribunal of the Church. It is not extinguished by use, even more than once.
In my experience, cases involving multiple marriages are most often submitted by persons returning to the Church and the practice of the faith, and by those converting to Catholicism by baptism or the profession of faith. Non practicing Catholics and non Catholics often believe that civil divorce enables them to enter another marriage freely. Or they don’t care. (We do not believe that of course.) That is typically when multiple “annulments” are involved.
Following up on what **otm **posted, some of these are cases in which a person was involved in a series of marriages “outside the Church” although one party in each of those marriages was bound to the Catholic form of marriage. These are so called “lack of form” marriages. Technically, they require declarations by competent Church authority rather than decrees of nullity. They are proven generally by looking at authentic baptismal certificates to establish that one party was bound to the Catholic form of marriage, the civil record of marriage to see that it was not observed, and the divorce decree.
Consequently these “lack of form” cases take little time and process. Popularly, people call them “annulments” (the proper term is decree of nullity) though they are not. This is what gives the impression of “annulments” being pushed through to outside observers.
The law calls for the ordinary process of a trial to take place no longer than a year. Most marriage cases involve this process since they require examining the consent of the parties. The time varies with the complexity of the case, the workload of the tribunal, how thoroughly and quickly witness testimony can be obtained, and other factors. Then the mandatory appeal process is to take no longer than six months. The appeal can be a ratification of the first decision or a full retrial. Some of these so called “formal cases” are done in under six months. Some drag because the proofs are not forthcoming or a given tribunal has a backlog.
But there are also documentary processes for cases in which consent is not an issue, such as ligamen (prior bond) cases, or those in which the priest or deacon lacked the legal faculty to witness the marriage validly. These can be done in a couple months, if that.
In all cases, the tribunal is obliged to discover the truth and render it with justice according to the laws of the Church. Time is irrelevant to that if speed would mean a corruption of the truth.
It is hard for me to comment on the individual situation of the person who is said to have gotten “4 annulments.” All those failed marriages are just too profoundly sad for words.
While I would view the comment that it “doesn’t hurt to know people in high places” as frivolous or an attempt for humor, I would also call to attention the fact that all of us will face final judgment by God. While tribunals attempt to minister the justice of God in this life, the Lord will administer it in the next one, and he will do both personally and eternally as the Divine Judge. Tribunal officials are mindful of that every day at work. We should all be. And I don’t know anyone at our tribunal who also doesn’t stop and pray for these parties and their families. I think that is best for all of us to do.
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LeahInancsi
Guest
It seems like you have a big dog in this hunt.
The next time I order books from Amazon, I will buy your book and read it. I doubt it will change my mind. I realize that “sacramental matrimony” is a very deep and complicated concept. Perhaps, too complicated. I agree that there are valid grounds for annulment, but I don’t agree with all of the grounds for which the Church grants annulments. For example, mental illness. What types of mental illness? Because a person suffers from periodic depression, does that mean that he or she is not capable of making a valid commitment? I don’t think so.
Before I started dating at the age of 16, I made the decision that I had one chance at marriage PERIOD. In the past 34 years, I have not found the person I was willing to take that one chance on. Knowing me, even if I were deceived by someone, I doubt that I would have any desire to trust my instincts a second time.
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LeahInancsi
Guest
If you’re referring to me, I’m not judging. It’s my opinion and my opinion, ONLY.
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Coder
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I agree.
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Granny_D
Guest
I had a Decree of Annulment given to me in 1976. It took two years…and had to go through the Tribunal in Scotland and England. I then had my “marriage” blessed or convalidated and 17 years later…my husband left me for another woman… Then he left her for another woman… with girlfriends inbetween… I have thought of applying for a second annulment…but since my commitment was valid… and I gave him a choice to leave before we got our “marriage” convalidated… and he didn’t…in fact he went on to become a Catholic… So I live out my vows… but pray if it be God’s Will… then he will apply for an annulment, since this latest wife is a Catholic… and he might have a conversion experience. As things stand right now…he is not interested in the Catholic Faith… and I am…so I live out my vows…and if he ever decides to come back to the Faith, then I will be happy to cooperate and accept the Church’s ruling…
Yours for “LIFE” Granny D
Yours for “LIFE” Granny D
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1ke
Guest
Maybe it will help clarify some of the things you have issues with.
I don’t think it is too complicated. Perhaps it is. It is a mystery, as all Sacraments are.
Does the church not have full authority in the matter of faith and morals?
You seem to think it is an all-or-nothing proposition. If I write “depression” on a form then “pouf” annulment granted.
No, that is not how it works. First, the defect must be present at the time the vows are exchanged. Then, there must be witnesses and proof of its existence before and during the exchange of vows.
Yes, clinical depression could be valid grounds, but it entirely depends on the individuals involved and the evidence of what was going on as the Sacrament took place. Certain medications and conditions may impair the ability to give valid, free consent.
This is a good thing, and the right way to approach marriage.
And, that is you. That is not the requirement for everyone.
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Granny_D
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1ke
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Granny D:
1ke:
No, not necessarily.
Alcoholism per se is not grounds for annulment. A person who is in treatment, who is not drinking, could possibly give valid consent to a marriage.
Alcoholism could be grounds for annulment, for example if the bride or groom showed up at the wedding under the influence. Their consent would be impaired if they were drunk or if their alcoholism was so serious that they were impaired in their everyday function to the point of lacking ability to understand the nature and sacramentality of marriage.
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Granny_D
Guest
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