Second baptism in the spirit

[guanophore]

I told the man who gave the talk 'God touches people when He sees fit.  And the problem I have is you said that after going to the retreat people WILL be touched.

You make a good point. God will respect our free choice, and if we choose to refuse the gifts He offers, He will not force them on us.

And I don’t like people making promises they can’t keep.

No, I don’t like it either, but the speaker was not speaking his own promise, but that of Christ, and we can always trust that He will keep His promises.

11*If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! Matt. 7:11

2*“Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Luke 12:32

Human beings often miss out on all that God has to give us because we are put off by other human beings who fall short of perfection. We have trouble looking past the messenger to the Message.

If God does not see fit for a person to be touched on a particular day, we must trust God’s wisdom. Besides anyone can pray anytime for the Holy Spirit and if God sees fit the person will receive it’
Anglewannabe;13625934:

The man responded ‘If you pray outside of the retreat it will take you longer. Until you try, you will not know’

I am not really sure what this means, but it is true that when two or more are gathered in prayer it increases the faith of all those present. It is also much easier to have the gifts of the Spirit released in one if you are gathered with others who have already had this experience, and who are already seeking it. That being said, there is no reason that a person cannot take longer to seek a release of the charismatic gifts in themselves by doing it in a solitary fashion. St. Teresa of Avila writes about a number of charismatic gifts she experienced, always in solitary prayer.

The last part of this comment really does resonate. The charismatic gifts are, by nature, experiential. Must cooperate with the Holy Spirit in expressing them, that is the way they are designed to work.

What really irked me is he was not willing to agree that God decides when people are touched

I am not sure why this would irk you so much, but the bottom line is that God has already touched us for this purpose in baptism and confirmation. We are already “wired” for the Spirit filled life, we just have not turned on the light switch. To that extent, as the scriptures above state, He has already made His decision known to us. It is US who need to agree to what He has already gifted us, and to walk in it. We ourselves are the greatest blockade to God’s working in and through us.

 

[grannymh]

I believe what SnoopSword was condemning were

What Protestants ‘teach’ is a fluid concept, its always changing. You can have a nominally adherent group turn apostate overnight. I have been there when the devil enters to wreak havoc.

The OP has witnessed his subtlety.

When a Catholic has witnessed – when the devil enters to wreak havoc – the Catholic has the responsibility to share this with the pastor who is technically in charge of a Catholic Charismatic Renewal group in his parish. There are some additional responsible steps which may or may not follow an honest discussion with the pastor.

If anyone has questions, they can be posted or sent to me via PM.

 

[justthistime]

this bible

1.Purification acts 21

2.Repentance/ math 3 mark 1;4

3. Identification with Yeshua acts 2;38

4.Spirit/ mark 1;8,gal 5;22

5. Fire acts 2;3, 2cor 2;18

6.Suffering rom 5;3,/ 2 tim 3;12

santification rom 8;13,1 john 3;3

Yet, I clearly see a seventh that was not mentioned in this teaching: Sanctification

 

[justthistime]

Matthew 3:11New International Version (NIV)

11 “I baptize you with[a] water for repentance.

But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.

He will baptize you with** the Holy Spirit and fire.**

 

[Anglewannabe]

You are correct when you said " By allowing untrue things to infiltrate is how the devil tricks us."

If you would be so kind – would you explain or describe what untrue thing or teaching you witnessed? As a Catholic, you need to know what steps you should take.

I hear them say ‘There is a second baptism of the holy spirit that can only be performed by a priest’. That is UNTRUE.

 

[guanophore]

I hear them say ‘There is a second baptism of the holy spirit that can only be performed by a priest’. That is UNTRUE.

Yes, but don’t throw out what is true just because someone did not express it correctly or made a mistake.

There is a baptism of the HS, and it usually is administered by a priest, in the sacrament. There are also many opoortunities to be filled, renewed, set on fire, etc that are all rooted in that sacrament.

Granny makes a good point. The thing to do when you are offended by someone or something they said is to go to them and tell them their fault. Then, if they refuse to listen to you…

 

[Anglewannabe]

Yes, but don’t throw out what is true just because someone did not express it correctly or made a mistake.

There is a baptism of the HS, and it usually is administered by a priest, in the sacrament. There are also many opoortunities to be filled, renewed, set on fire, etc that are all rooted in that sacrament.

Ok, perhaps I didn’t say it clearly. They said ‘There is a second baptism of the Holy Spirit that is NOT a sacrament but only a priest can do it’

What you are talking about is being baptized. They are lying saying there is a second baptism. There is NO such thing. And they are not making a gramatical mistake. They really mean to spread the lie

Granny makes a good point. The thing to do when you are offended by someone or something they said is to go to them and tell them their fault. Then, if they refuse to listen to you…

They blantanly refused to listen when I said we should do God’s will

 

[Anglewannabe]

You make a good point. God will respect our free choice, and if we choose to refuse the gifts He offers, He will not force them on us.

.

But the point is, God does not give us the gift we want, God gives us the gifts He wants us to have. And they are not respecting that.

 

[grannymh]

Ok, perhaps I didn’t say it clearly. They said ‘There is a second baptism of the Holy Spirit that is NOT a sacrament but only a priest can do it’

What you are talking about is being baptized. They are lying saying there is a second baptism. There is NO such thing. And they are not making a gramatical mistake. They really mean to spread the lie

When there is a problem with what is being taught in a prayer group, it is a Catholic’s responsibility to meet with the Pastor who is technically in charge of a Catholic Charismatic Renewal prayer group which is part of his parish. Share with him the problem you observed. Do it respectfully and gently. You can simply ask what was actually meant. I am interested in knowing the outcome of this meeting.

If the group is not part of a Catholic Parish and still calls itself Catholic, let me know and I will explain what you can do. You can always ask the head of a prayer group if it is affiliated with the Catholic diocese. Obviously, a quick call to the diocesan office will verify or not verify the group’s standing.

 

[grannymh]

But the point is, God does not give us the gift we want, God gives us the gifts He wants us to have. And they are not respecting that.

Are you staying with this group?

I hope you realize that God can and does give us the gift we want in addition to the gifts He wants us to have.

 

[grannymh]

Matthew 3:11New International Version (NIV)

11 “I baptize you with[a] water for repentance.

But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.

He will baptize you with** the Holy Spirit and fire.**

Welcome to CAF.

Thank you for your posts. I appreciate the opportunity to learn and share information about different faiths. Normally, I stay with St. Paul and his teachings on Tongues. Still, I find this thread’s discussions important. Actually, every “charismatic” type thread is important.

 

[guanophore]

Ok, perhaps I didn't say it clearly.  They said 'There is a second baptism of the Holy Spirit that is NOT a sacrament but only a priest can do it'

You were quite clear. It is the person who said it who made the mistake.

What you are talking about is being baptized. They are lying saying there is a second baptism.

I don’t think it is a lie. A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive someone. They are just communicating poorly, or are mistaken.

There is NO such thing. And they are not making a gramatical mistake. They really mean to spread the lie

If you believe this, you should go confront them immediately. And if the person who said it won’t listen, go to the priest.

They blantanly refused to listen when I said we should do God’s will

It is God’s will that we be filled with the Spirit, and they know that. You know that too. It is a miscommunication. You can’t make someone listen, ,but it is your obligation to go to the person that made the mistake and address it.

But the point is, God does not give us the gift we want, God gives us the gifts He wants us to have. And they are not respecting that.

Sometimes they are one and the same. He enjoins us to earnestly desire the best gifts. I can’t really speak to what they are respecting or not, but it is true that many people are able to be more open to what God wants to gift us when we all pray and seek together.

The assumption must be that God wants to give us gifts, and that we need to be open to receive them.

 

[Petaro]

I told the man who gave the talk ‘God touches people when He sees fit. And the problem I have is you said that after going to the retreat people WILL be touched. And I don’t like people making promises they can’t keep. If God does not see fit for a person to be touched on a particular day, we must trust God’s wisdom. Besides anyone can pray anytime for the Holy Spirit and if God sees fit the person will receive it’

The man responded ‘If you pray outside of the retreat it will take you longer. Until you try, you will not know’

What really irked me is he was not willing to agree that God decides when people are touched

Angie

How much does the Retreat cost? I am very wary of one size fits all spiritual events that promise the Holy Spirit in some palpable sense to all comers. I agree with the wise post that suggests that some of us will be tempted to be ultra-Catholics who have been touched by the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. Paul warned that this gift should come only where there is present an interpreter. Otherwise Glossolalia can be gobbledegook.
Beware any religious event with a price tag attached. There is rarely a refund policy.

 

[grannymh]

How much does the Retreat cost? I am very wary of one size fits all spiritual events that promise the Holy Spirit in some palpable sense to all comers. I agree with the wise post that suggests that some of us will be tempted to be ultra-Catholics who have been touched by the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. Paul warned that this gift should come only where there is present an interpreter. Otherwise Glossolalia can be gobbledegook.
Beware any religious event with a price tag attached. There is rarely a refund policy.

May I gently point out that St. Paul clearly teaches that there are two distinct separate Holy Spirit gifts which employ the use of Tongues. One gift is that an individual freely uses Tongues to pray directly to God. God, not humans, interprets this simple gift of prayer.

When one studies the nine classical gifts of the Holy Spirit, listed by St. Paul, one learns that these gifts are meant to build up the Church. Therefore, we are to listen to God. In other words, the Holy Spirit is enabling a person to give God’s message to the assembled community. In this situation, one of the Holy Spirit gifts is the use of Tongues. It is this unique separate gift which requires that someone has the Holy Spirit gift of Interpretation.

Please notice the difference in direction. Praying in Tongues is when we talk to God. Speaking in Tongues is when God talks to us. In addition, one of the nine listed gifts or ministries is “discernment of spirits.” Because the gift of Speaking in Tongues is God talking to us, Discernment insures that the Tongues message is from God.

 

[guanophore]

How much does the Retreat cost? I am very wary of one size fits all spiritual events that promise the Holy Spirit in some palpable sense to all comers. I agree with the wise post that suggests that some of us will be tempted to be ultra-Catholics who have been touched by the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. Paul warned that this gift should come only where there is present an interpreter. Otherwise Glossolalia can be gobbledegook.
Beware any religious event with a price tag attached. There is rarely a refund policy.

It is true that believers since the beginning have been tempted to become inflated over spiritul gifts.

There are many varieties of the gift of tongues, and the one you are speaking about is for use in a gathering for prophetic expression.

If the OP is talking about a Life in the Spirit Seminar, people are not prevented from attending due to lack of funds.

Glossolalia can sound like gobbledegook, but that does not make it inauthentic. It sounded that way when the Bible was written as well.

 

[guanophore]

I told the man who gave the talk 'God touches people when He sees fit.  And the problem I have is you said that after going to the retreat people WILL be touched.

You almost sound as though you are afraid of what may happen, or not happen.

Any time we approach God with an open heart and a willing Spirit, He is pleased to touch us, so yes, everyone who attends a retreat spiritually disposed in this way can expect God to respond. He loves to give the Holy Spirit to us!

And I don’t like people making promises they can’t keep. If God does not see fit for a person to be touched on a particular day, we must trust God’s wisdom. Besides anyone can pray anytime for the Holy Spirit and if God sees fit the person will receive it’

I am thinking maybe you attended this prayer meeting because you are seeking a deeper, more authentic, more Spirit filled life as many of us do. There is part of you that may be resisting that kind of change. The parts of us that don’t want to change will look for reasons not to take risks,and not to trust what is being said, because it implies that change may happen.

 The man responded 'If you pray outside of the retreat it will take you longer.  Until you try, you will not know'

What really irked me is he was not willing to agree that God decides when people are touched

Angie

You can be irked, or you can confront the man as Jesus instructed, or talk to the pastor. You can choose to hold a resentment, or you can forgive him for his poor presentation of the information, and continue your search. Please do not withdraw because not all of God’s people are perfect. Sometimes people say things with which we don’t agree, or hurt our feelings. God has called us to get beyond these roadblocks to spiritual growth.

How do you know that your deeper spiritual walk is not being answered by this irking experience? The people around us become our hair shirts and we are commanded to love one another. Perhaps this incident occurred specifically so that the Holy Spirit can lead you beyond personalities into principles of a deeper walk with HIm?