Second Comandment Difference

[BernadetteM]

What is the reason that the 10 Commandments in the Catholic Church leaves out the part about making and bowing down to images in the 2nd Commandment?

The Lutherans follow the same order, but all other protestants include worshiping and making images of anything on earth, under the water or in Heaven.

Although protestants keep this in their list, they don’t abide by it, if one take it literally as they have pictures of family, animals, plants and statues of angels and many other images.

Yours in the Heart of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Ignatius]

What is the reason that the 10 Commandments in the Catholic Church leaves out the part about making and bowing down to images in the 2nd Commandment?

We don’t. The complete list of the 10 commandments is given on page 551 of the Catechism of The Catholic Church. You will see that it is exactly the same as commandments from Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Whoever told you that something is left out hasn’t read The Catechism, which gives the authentic Catholic Teachings and is the Sure Norm for finding the actual teachings of The Catholic Church.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

What is the reason that the 10 Commandments in the Catholic Church leaves out the part about making and bowing down to images in the 2nd Commandment?

The Lutherans follow the same order, but all other protestants include worshiping and making images of anything on earth, under the water or in Heaven.

Although protestants keep this in their list, they don’t abide by it, if one take it literally as they have pictures of family, animals, plants and statues of angels and many other images.

Yours in the Heart of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Interesting question.
This may help
users.binary.net/polycarp/graven.html

Needless to say Catholics do not worship statues, nor are they made for that purpose.
Note that Moses made graven images (though obviously not for worship).

No conspiacy theory here - I think we keep the commandments short and sweet in the Catechisms to aid easy memorisation.

 

[1ke]

What is the reason that the 10 Commandments in the Catholic Church leaves out the part about making and bowing down to images in the 2nd Commandment?

The Lutherans follow the same order, but all other protestants include worshiping and making images of anything on earth, under the water or in Heaven.

Nope, not left out. Right there where it’s always been. Exodus and Deuteronomy give slightly different wording and of course have no numbering originally.

St Augustine, in the 4th century, came up with the formulation we have today. The Catholic Church includes this in the first commandment and breaks out 9 and 10 whereas the protestants break the first commandment into 2 parts and combine 9 and 10 together.

 

[TimothyH]

Catholics use Deuteronomy. Many non-Catholics use Exodus.

The Catholic first commandment contains everything in the non-Catholic first and second commandment including the command not to worship “strange Gods”.

The Exodus version used by many non-Catholics combines the Catholic ninth and tenth commandment into one.

-Tim-

 

[Todd977]

Catholic Answers’ own Jimmy Akin has written a nice article explaining the matter, here.

 

[BernadetteM]

I thought that we also had the same commandment, but it was split up, however when I looked the Catholic Commandments online it didn’t show the full commandment.

The reason I was looking it up was because I have a daughter who is very ill with a brain disease and has been sucked into some strange beliefs about the Catholic Church and also about all religion except where you just read your Bible and God tells you what it means. Of course she is also going on the web and finding all these websites that are very anti Catholic and also many seem to believe in the Sabbath and Jewish Holydays etc.

In your charity please pray for her, her name is Lesa and I am afraid for her.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[DavidFilmer]

I thought that we also had the same commandment, but it was split up, however when I looked the Catholic Commandments online it didn’t show the full commandment.

If you were looking at the second commandment then you were looking in the wrong place.

The Ten Commandments actually contain twelve commandments. So some are grouped together. Scripture doesn’t tell us how they are supposed to be grouped, so, historically, different methods of grouping have been developed. In the Catholic style of grouping (based on St. Augustine), the first two commandments (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image) are grouped into the First Commandment.

Most protestants follow John Calvin’s grouping, which does not combine the first two commandments. Calvin combines the last three commandments (all of which are “thou shalt not covet…”) into the Tenth Commandment. Two of these “covet commandments” deal with property (neighbor’s house, servants, etc) and one deals with lust (neighbor’s wife). Augustine grouped the two property commandments as the Tenth Commandments and left the lust commandment to stand alone as the Ninth Commandment.

So the numbering is out of sync from the Second to the Ninth Commandment. The Catholic 4th is the protestant 5th, and the Catholic 7th is the protestant 8th, etc.

But they’re all there. The only traditional grouping that omits any commandment is Martin Luther’s grouping (from his Large Catechism, page 15 & 22), which omits the commandment about graven images (which is in Augustine’s First Commandment but is Calvin’s Second Commandment).

 

[mikekle]

Interesting question.
This may help
users.binary.net/polycarp/graven.html

Needless to say Catholics do not worship statues, nor are they made for that purpose.
Note that Moses made graven images (though obviously not for worship).

No conspiacy theory here - I think we keep the commandments short and sweet in the Catechisms to aid easy memorisation.

God didnt tell us to NOT worship them, he told us to NOT make them, it doesnt matter what we do with the graven images, it became a sin once they were made (imo anyway).

I know most catholics refute this by saying we are not actually worshiping or idolizing the graven images, but if you read the bible, it clearly says, they are not to be made at all.

 

[BernadetteM]

God didnt tell us to NOT worship them, he told us to NOT make them, it doesnt matter what we do with the graven images, it became a sin once they were made (imo anyway).

I know most catholics refute this by saying we are not actually worshiping or idolizing the graven images, but if you read the bible, it clearly says, they are not to be made at all.

If as you say is the true meaning of this commandment, then God Himself disobeyed His own commandment. I don’t believe God contradicts Himself. He ordered that two cherubim be placed in the Holy of Holies. Also He said no likeness of anything on earth, heaven or under the sea. That means you may not have any pictures of anything, nor any ceramic angels, animals etc. Are you following these commands if you really believe your interpretation and are ready to say that God does not speak the truth or He can ignore His own commands?

I am not trying to be uncharitable, but find most people who believe as you seem to, to have pictures of their family, ceramic images of many items etc.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[JonNC]

If you were looking at the second commandment then you were looking in the wrong place.

The Ten Commandments actually contain twelve commandments. So some are grouped together. Scripture doesn’t tell us how they are supposed to be grouped, so, historically, different methods of grouping have been developed. In the Catholic style of grouping (based on St. Augustine), the first two commandments (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image) are grouped into the First Commandment.

Most protestants follow John Calvin’s grouping, which does not combine the first two commandments. Calvin combines the last three commandments (all of which are “thou shalt not covet…”) into the Tenth Commandment. Two of these “covet commandments” deal with property (neighbor’s house, servants, etc) and one deals with lust (neighbor’s wife). Augustine grouped the two property commandments as the Tenth Commandments and left the lust commandment to stand alone as the Ninth Commandment.

So the numbering is out of sync from the Second to the Ninth Commandment. The Catholic 4th is the protestant 5th, and the Catholic 7th is the protestant 8th, etc.

But they’re all there. The only traditional grouping that omits any commandment is Martin Luther’s grouping (from his Large Catechism, page 15 & 22), which omits the commandment about graven images (which is in Augustine’s First Commandment but is Calvin’s Second Commandment).

Hi David,
I just want to make sure folks are clear here. While the Large Catechism doesn’t mention graven images in its title of the 1st commandment, that certainly doesn’t mean Lutherans hold a dramatically dofferent view regarding them than Catholics. From the Large Catechism:

20] Therefore the heathen really make their self-invented notions and dreams of God an idol, and put their trust in that which is altogether nothing. 21] Thus it is with all idolatry; for it consists not merely in erecting an image and worshiping it, but rather in the heart, which stands gaping at something else, and seeks help and consolation from creatures, saints, or devils, and neither cares for God, nor looks to Him for so much good as to believe that He is willing to help, neither believes that whatever good it experiences comes from God.

Jon

 

[Michael_Francis]

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