Second Coming Errors of Protestantism.

[Church_Militant]

So in other words, believing what the bible teaches is a heresy. That is (1)the land of Israel are for the Jews to possess and that God will bring them back into the land before the Messiah comes, and (2)Jesus revealing that the Kingdom he will rule in will be for a 1000 years.

It would help if that was what the Bible actually taught and not just the teachings of man.

1. Catholics have no problem with that.
2. (a) The Messiah has already come.
3. Catholics have no problem with that…just the n-C interpretation of of it.

 

[Lev23]

It would help if that was what the Bible actually taught and not just the teachings of man.

1. Catholics have no problem with that.
2. (a) The Messiah has already come.
3. Catholics have no problem with that…just the n-C interpretation of of it.

Denying that Jesus will not come back to rescue repentant Israel and judge the nations and then start the 1000 year kingdom is denying the scriptural prophecies that say so.

 

[Church_Militant]

Denying that Jesus will not come back to rescue repentant Israel and judge the nations is denying the scriptural prophecies that say so.

That’s not what we are talking about here…and that is not something that The Catholic Church teaches. Tell us what you believe and we can deal with that but I suggest that you not tell us what WE believe because you apparently don’t know.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Denying that Jesus will not come back to rescue repentant Israel and judge the nations is denying the scriptural prophecies that say so.

Jesus will return not to judge just Israel alone. He will return to judge all nations. I don’t know where you get this idea, I suppose it comes from the dispensationalist view that was developed by John Darby in the 1800s.

When the Son of Man comes in glory with his angels, he will gather all nations to himself, and separate them. The dead shall be raised from the dead. Jesus will separate the sheep on his right, and the goat on this left. To those on his right, he will judge them accordingly by their deeds, and will reward them the Kingdom of God. To his left, he will also judge them according to their deeds, and since they were not faith to God’s precepts, they were cast into the eternal fire of hell.

 

[Lev23]

That’s not what we are talking about here…and that is not something that The Catholic Church teaches. Tell us what you believe and we can deal with that but I suggest that you not tell us what WE believe because you apparently don’t know.

Quit playing footsie and you tell me what the Vatcian teaches then.

 

[jmcrae]

Denying that Jesus will not come back to rescue repentant Israel and judge the nations is denying the scriptural prophecies that say so.

No one denies this, but this will happen on the Day of Judgement; not before. There is not going to be any “third coming” of Jesus Christ in between the Incarnation and the Last Judgement.

 

[Church_Militant]

Quit playing footsie and you tell me what the Vatcian teaches then.

Try being charitable and respectful…You have alleged error by the Catholic Church. Make your case or retract your allegation. In debate those who make an allegation must support it with facts. So bring it if you have one.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Quit playing footsie and you tell me what the Vatcian teaches then.

Here is a summary of it since you insist. The Catholic Church teaches the following:

1. The Reign of Jesus Christ is now. He is sitteth at the Right Hand of the Father. He is in Heaven.
2. He left his Ambassador on Earth who is the Pope to guide his flock even those who are not in full communion with Rome. They are united with us in baptism since through baptism we have been made brothers and sisters of the Lord.
3. When he comes in glory, he will raise the dead and judge all nations. The resurrection will include those of the righteous and those who do evil. God will judge them according to what they have done. If they remain faithful to God, by being obedient to the commandments, God will reward them in heaven. If they were not obedient, they would be punished into the eternal fires of hell.
4. Satan and his demons will be forever lock away in hell for all eternity.
5. Jesus Christ will restore all things new. All of the righteous will be glorified like their creator, and will be immortal like angels. Earth will be a new society under the leadership of Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. The New Jerusalem is the Church, by the way and is describe as the Bride of the Lamb.

I would love to go into details, but I think some other Catholics will be happy to give you more. What I wrote here is just a summary. If you ask me when the Second Coming comes, I don’t know. No one knows, but we must be prepared. Oh by the way, on the Last Judgment Day, Purgatory will cease to exists and the souls there will also go to heaven with their bodies of course (they will also be judge just like everyone else as mention in # 3).

 

[Lev23]

Jesus will return not to judge just Israel alone. He will return to judge all nations. I don’t know where you get this idea, I suppose it comes from the dispensationalist view that was developed by John Darby in the 1800s.

.

(Edited)
No where did I just say ONLY Israel will be judged. I didn’t even say Israel will be judged. He is coming back to resuce them from the nations. The nations will be judged for what they did to Israel. See Joel 3 and Matthew 25. And this is not developed thinking from Darby, this is what the scriptures speak.

 

[Mannyfit75]

(Edited) Because no where did I just say ONLY Israel will be judged. I didn’t even say Israel will be judged. He is coming back to resuce them from the nations. The nations will be judged for what they did to Israel. See Joel 3 and Matthew 25. And this is not developed thinking from Darby, this is what the scriptures speak.

Darby did develop the doctrine of Millenium. It was his idea that gave rise of the idea of the Rapture, which all believers will escape the Great Tribulation while non-believers suffer on earth. Matthew 25 said that he will separate us like the sheep and the goat. Each man is judge individually.

(Edited). I just interpreted your post incorrectly.

 

[Mannyfit75]

If you want to know what the Church teaches concerning Millennialism, here it is:

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism. (Catechism of the Catholic Church. Imprimatur Potest +Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Doubleday, NY 1995, p. 194).

 

[Lev23]

Try being charitable and respectful…You have alleged error by the Catholic Church. Make your case or retract your allegation. In debate those who make an allegation must support it with facts. So bring it if you have one.

Lol, where do I begin to debate?

Mannyfit lists the Christian Zionism and Milleniumism are heresies. I say these 2 ideas can be backed by scripture. You say the church has no problem with these scriptures, but does with the N-C interpretation of them, which is the literal intrepation.

Are we on the same page yet?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Lol, where do I begin to debate?

Mannyfit lists the Christian Zionism and Milleniumism are heresies. I say these 2 ideas can be backed by scripture. You say the church has no problem with these scriptures, but does with the N-C interpretation of them, which is the literal intrepation.

Are we on the same page yet?

The Catholic Church condemned Millenarianism:

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism. (Catechism of the Catholic Church. Imprimatur Potest +Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Doubleday, NY 1995, p. 194).

I also like to note that since the creation of the Nation of Israel, Palestinian Christians, my friend, were killed and their home destroyed. What good came out of this? Nothing good. War pretty much was the end result.

I’m not saying the nation of Israel was not necessary. It could have been done peacefully, but we don’t see that at all.

 

[jmcrae]

Lol, where do I begin to debate?

Mannyfit lists the Christian Zionism and Milleniumism are heresies. I say these 2 ideas can be backed by scripture.

So, back those ideas with Scripture, instead of changing the subject. The Last Judgement and the conversion of Israel have nothing to do with either one.

I don’t know of any Scripture that states that Christ will return more than once more, for the Last Judgement. There is no “third coming” indicated in the Bible anywhere.

 

[Church_Militant]

Lol, where do I begin to debate?

Mannyfit lists the Christian Zionism and Milleniumism are heresies. I say these 2 ideas can be backed by scripture. You say the church has no problem with these scriptures, but does with the N-C interpretation of them, which is the literal intrepation.

Are we on the same page yet?

Not likely…it’s a “literalist interpretation” The Catholic Church takes a literal interpretation.

Apologetics 101-07

Q: A friend of mine said that his church takes the Bible literally, but that the Catholic Church doesn’t…is that true?

A: Actually, there is no truth to that, whatsoever. Catholics interpret the Bible in a “literal” sense, while many fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and others interpret the Bible in a literalist sense.

The “literal” meaning of a passage of Scripture is the meaning that the author of that passage of Scripture intended to convey. The “literalist” interpretation of a passage of Scripture is: “that’s what it says, that’s what it means.”

Let me give you an example to illustrate the difference. If you were to read a passage in a book that said it was “raining cats and dogs outside”, how would you interpret that? As Americans, in the 21st Century, you would know that the author was intending to convey the idea that it was raining pretty doggone hard outside. That would be the “literal” interpretation…the interpretation the author intended to convey. On the other hand, what if you made a “literalist” interpretation of the phrase, “it’s raining cats and dogs”?

The “literalist” interpretation would be that, were you to walk outside, you would actually see cats and dogs falling from the sky like rain. No taking into account the popularly accepted meaning of this phrase. No taking into account the author’s intentions. The words say it was raining cats and dogs, so, by golly, it was raining cats and dogs! That is the literalist, or fundamentalist, way of interpretation.

If someone 2000 years in the future picked up that same book and read, “It was raining cats and dogs outside,” in order to properly understand that passage in the book, they would need a “literal” interpretation, not a “literalist” interpretation. Now, think about that in the context of interpreting the Bible 2000-3000 years after it was written.

Literal, or Catholic, interpretation vs. literalist, or fundamentalist, interpretation.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
2. Catholics have no problem with that…just the n-C interpretation of of it.**

As a matter of fact, the Church DOES have a problem with that.

This is PRECISELY why the words “Whose Kingdom shall have no end” were inserted into the Creed by the Council of Constantinople 1 (2nd ecumenical council)–to repudiate the idea of a literal millennium.

There will be a literal millennium IF and ONLY if:

1. Psalm 90:4 (Hebrew numbering ) and 2 Peter 3:8 mean nothing.
2. Jesus’s words “My Kingdom is NOT of this world” were only kidding. A lteral millennium is STILL a Kingdom of This World.

 

[ChangingHeart]

Do you know what’s even worse than raining cats and dogs???
Hailing taxi cabs!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

**
2. Catholics have no problem with that…just the n-C interpretation of of it.**

As a matter of fact, the Church DOES have a problem with that.

This is PRECISELY why the words “Whose Kingdom shall have no end” were inserted into the Creed by the Council of Constantinople 1 (2nd ecumenical council)–to repudiate the idea of a literal millennium.

There will be a literal millennium IF and ONLY if:

1. Psalm 90:4 (Hebrew numbering ) and 2 Peter 3:8 mean nothing.
2. Jesus’s words “My Kingdom is NOT of this world” were only kidding. A lteral millennium is STILL a Kingdom of This World.

I think that the n-C interpretation actually says that this reign on earth lasts only 1,000 years, but I’m with you on this. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Christ returns

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Satan Bound 1000 Years

20Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years

;

3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[Rightlydivide]

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth

,

Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [fn3] God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [fn4] death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.