Second Commandment and idolatry

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Where do we draw the line at was is and isnt idolatrous? How do you measure this in the Catholic faith? Are the rosary, crosses, statues of saints, crucified christ images counted as idolatry? Is it idolatry to pray to Mary and Saints? Is it idolatry to pray with your rosary? The rosary I believe can help someone to stay focused especially if their mind tends to wonder or if they have such a condition as OCD. The rosary could help to ground them.
 
Are the rosary, crosses, statues of saints, crucified christ images counted as idolatry?
We venerate, but do not adore, sacramentals. Adoration, we reserve for the Holy Trinity.
Is it idolatry to pray to Mary and Saints?
It is not. We only pray to Mary and the Host of Saints for intercession…we pray that they raise our prayers to the Lord on our behalf, not answer our needs.
 
You know, the prohibition against idolatry is the same as the prohibition against worshipping false gods, I’m not sure why people divide that into two Commandments. And quite literally, anything can be an idol, I’d be willing to wager that some of the people I’ve met think the Bible is more important than Jesus.
 
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Are the rosary, crosses, statues of saints, crucified christ images counted as idolatry
No, because they aren’t worshipped as gods or believed to have any inherent power or divine attribute. A rosary is just a string of beads to count prayers, it can be blessed but that doesn’t count as worship. Statues of saints are just statues and are not in any way thought of as divine in Catholic tradition- you can easily live your whole life as a devout Catholic without owning a single statue. Some people like to own them and light candles and pray before them but that’s only for the sake of being better focused in prayer, tradition, etc… The key word here is before, not to- people pray before a statue, not to it.

For crosses and crucified Jesus images: Again, people aren’t praying to the cross or to the image, they’re praying to the God represented on the cross or in the image. The distinction is quite easy to make. If I’m praying in front of a crucifix and you remove it, I wouldn’t stop praying and look cross because the subject of my prayers is Jesus, not His image.
Is it idolatry to pray to Mary and Saints?
As per Catholic theology, no. Catholicism recognizes three levels of prayer: dulia, or veneration, which is offered to saints, hyperdulia, or high veneration, which is offered to Mary because of her special, unique role as Mother of God, and finally latria, which is actual worship, offered to God alone. Protestant theology doesn’t make such distinctions between prayer ‘types’ and therefore it is easy for Protestants to not be able to differentiate between them or mentally separate them. Catholics understand that praying to a saint is not the same as praying to God. We pray to saints with the expectation of intercession, meaning we don’t believe saints have any special power except that which God sees fit to give them (only God has power, as goes the Lord’s Prayer-“Thine is the power”).

Hope this helps.

Christ’s peace.
 
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This article could help you


We worship only God. Mary and saints we venerate because of God and His work in them. Also over that, Mary is Mother of Jesus, who is God and second person of Trinity. She is our mother too, Jesus gave us His Mother.
You can read about praying to Mary here



Here about prayer and venerating saints:



And Rosary:


BUT Rosary isn’t mantra to ground someone or put him in some state of consciousness, it is type of prayer and OCD isn’t something that anyone should treat by themselves.
Here we cannot discuss medical things in that way and give advices.
 
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Whether praying to Mary, any other saint, with a rosary, crucifix, statue, etc… God is the end. Think of everything else like a bus, or train. A vehicle to get your prayers to the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
I know the difference between a photo of my husband and my husband.
Likewise with the crucifix and statues of saints.
 
The Second Commandment is “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain…”

Idolatry is part of the prohibition of the First Commandment.
 
Where do we draw the line at was is and isnt idolatrous?
We don’t worship anything but God.
We don’t worship Mary.
We don’t worship the saints.
We don’t worship statues, whether it’s a crucifix or a golden calf.
We don’t worship secular anything, including sex or money or food.

I think that makes it clear.

And yes, Margaret Ann is right. Your question concerns the First Commandment, not the Second.
 
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I believe that many protestant groups use a compilation of the 10 commandments that differs from the Catholic compilation.

The main difference is that the protestant counting does indeed ‘split’ our first, and thus they are ‘one-off’ all the way to their 10th commandment which COMBINES our 9th and 10th. Our 9th is “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife’ and our 10th is ‘Thou shalt Not covet thy neighbor’s goods’, but their 10th is, “thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife or goods’.
 
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Idolatry happens when that object or activity becomes a god to us, when it interferes with direct relationship with God or interferes with placing Him first above all else. And while this is actually pretty easy to do, we’re to continuously seek to know and love Him better, and to place lesser, created things in their proper places, to fulfill the first commandment IOW.
 
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I understand, but Catholics don’t use the NKJV.

We use Catholic Bibles only, such as the NABRE, the RSV-CE, and the Douay-Rheims.

We don’t follow whatever numbering a Protestant Bible might have for the Commandments.
 
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I understand your point also. But, it had nothing to do with the numbering forgive me if I offended you for using the NKJV. I was concerned with the notion of idolatry. Other denominations can see the Catholic faith as being very idolatrous and was just looking for the best explanation from someone
 
Actually, Protestants, between denominations, don’t all list the Decalogue under the same numbering.
This is correct. To a large extent it’s a matter of convention and interpretation as to how the entire Decalogue is to be divided into ten. The Septuagint’s numbering differs from that of Rabbinic Judaism. Augustine differs from the LXX. Catholics follow Augustine’s numbering, Orthodox follow the LXX.
 
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
First, consider the context. God delivered the law to people who had a propensity to carve idols / worship idols. This was pretty common during that time between the Egyptians, Hittites and Canaanites…all who influenced the Israelites. In fact, what was the first thing the Israelites did when they were waiting for Moses to come down from the mountain, right after God performed some impressive miracles to lead them out of Egypt? Worship a golden calf!

In that context, God does not want them to carve an idol and worship it.

We know He didn’t have an issue with carving non-idols, because He commanded them to carve them when making the Ark of the Covenant (Ex 25:18-20)…other examples 1 Chron 28:18-19, and Ez 41:17-18)
 
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Where do we draw the line at was is and isnt idolatrous? How do you measure this in the Catholic faith? …
The idolater credits the image with Divinity or Divine powers, whereas a Catholic knows that there is no divinity or virtue on account of which the image is to be given adoration, and that no petitions can be addressed to the image, and that no trust is to be placed in the image, rather that the honor which is given to an image is referred to the prototype which the image represents, that is Christ (i.e., divinity). The Saints are likenesses.

Catechism
1701 … It is in Christ, "the image of the invisible God,"3 that man has been created “in the image and likeness” of the Creator. …

1702 The divine image is present in every man. It shines forth in the communion of persons, in the likeness of the unity of the divine persons among themselves (cf. chapter two ).
 
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Where do we draw the line at was is and isnt idolatrous?
When you can’t tell the difference between who you worship, and what is just a tool to help you.

When something or someone other then God is more important to you, you feel you no longer need God.

When you think God can only hear you with another object and can not hear you if you speak to Him directly… so you stop speaking to Him, and just pray to the person or thing.

When God is forgotten.

Then you’ve crossed the line. Always remember God is the Beginning and the End. The One and Only. God is the most powerful and important every aspect of your life. You don’t need anything or anyone but Him.
 
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Lutherans use the same numbering as Catholics, if I recall correctly. Southern Baptists do not.
 
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Doesn’t Exodus 32, 1-4, defines what idolatry is?
He took the gold from them, formed it in a mold and cast an image of a calf; and they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!
Carved images are not the issue as we can see. The issue is placing them in God’s place.

When we pray to the saints or Our Lady, we are asking for them appeal or intercede to God on our behalf. They are creatures of God that because of our prayers, feel mercy for us and try to help. That’s definetely not Idolatry in any way.
 
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