Second law of thermodynamics and God

[LongJohnSilver]

I am debating a non-believer, and he has come up with a rather strange statement. He hasn’t bothered to really explain it yet, but I think I remember his argument from a previous debate.

He says that the second law of thermodynamics is evidence that if a God existed He could not interfere with the physical world, since the law talks about energy in an isolated physical system, and interference from God would cause energy to escape or be added. Or something.

I want to ask him what he means obviously, but maybe somebody here understands what he might mean? What can I answer?

 

[ronnie_bonigli]

If anyone thinks the creator of all the Laws of Physics is contrained by those laws, they’re not a very deep thinker. And to think there’s something omnipotent about the powers of the second law of thermodynamics is even more naive on this atheist’s part, the second law is basically just an ***observation ***of how in a closed system the amount of entropy increases with time. You paint a picket fence white and leave it alone for 40 years and come back to it, it will be brown and rotting, that’s the second law there, it’s just that things get disordered over time, not exactly some “Law” that would tie an omnipotent creator’s hands.

 

[BVM_1221]

I am debating a non-believer, and he has come up with a rather strange statement. He hasn’t bothered to really explain it yet, but I think I remember his argument from a previous debate.

He says that the second law of thermodynamics is evidence that if a God existed He could not interfere with the physical world, since the law talks about energy in an isolated physical system, and interference from God would cause energy to escape or be added. Or something.

I want to ask him what he means obviously, but maybe somebody here understands what he might mean? What can I answer?

Just that God is outside of the Universe and its constraints.

That God himself established the Three Laws:bible1:

1. You can’t win:nope:
2. You can’t even break even:dts:
3. You can’t quit the game :crying:

 

[ronnie_bonigli]

He says that the second law of thermodynamics is evidence that if a God existed He could not interfere with the physical world, since the law talks about energy in an isolated physical system, and interference from God would cause energy to escape or be added. Or something.

I looked at the O.P. again and it actually looks like your friend may be talking about the ***first ***law of thermodynamics, that energy can be neither created or destroyed, just changed in form. It doesn’t change from what I said about the second law, God would not be contrained by the Laws of Physics HE created. Besides even in nature, the first law apears to be violated, in quantum physics, particals are “created” from nothing in qauntum vacuums all the time, not to mention in the Big Bang, which the same thing is posulated as having happened, writ large

 

[BumpiestBread]

I looked at the O.P. again and it actually looks like your friend may be talking about the ***first ***law of thermodynamics, that energy can be neither created or destroyed, just changed in form. It doesn’t change from what I said about the second law, God would not be contrained by the Laws of Physics HE created. Besides even in nature, the first law apears to be violated, in quantum physics, particals are “created” from nothing in qauntum vacuums all the time, not to mention in the Big Bang, which the same thing is posulated as having happened, writ large

I can’t comment on quantum physics (I won’t even pretend like I know anything significant about that topic), however the big bang theory doesn’t postulate that there was nothing, and then all of the sudden there was something. It basically states that all matter and energy was condensed and then it rapidly expanded. No mention of matter being created or destroyed.

 

[ronnie_bonigli]

I can’t comment on quantum physics (I won’t even pretend like I know anything significant about that topic), however the big bang theory doesn’t postulate that there was nothing, and then all of the sudden there was something. It basically states that all matter and energy was condensed and then it rapidly expanded. No mention of matter being created or destroyed.

In the Standard Big Bang Model, which is known as a “Singularity” as we go back in time to the first moment the values of density of matter and all other values go to infinity, and it is generally assumed that all the energy came into exitence at that point. And now with physicists speculating on a “quantum vacuum fluctuation” start of the Big Bang, that would emphatically say that the Big Bang came out of “nothing”.

 

[Julian0404]

Use all three of these proofs for GOD, First Cause, Contingency, Motion.

If energy cannot be created or destroyed, per your nonbeliever, then energy is his “god”, as it always was, everything must then be contingent upon energy and all motion must be traced back to energy.

But how did it become the First Cause, who or what caused energy “to be”? He will not be able to explain as it will be a mystery to him - as is GOD a mystery to believers; however it is easier to move towards a loving GOD as the First Cause than an “unknown” energy which, through the ages has not manifested itself upon us. Has not been the source of proven miracles. Has not brought life back from death. Has not fed multitudes with litte. Has not had recorded witnesses from many historians over the centuries write about “energy” as a god. Who has ever died for this “energy”? Who has ever built Cathedrals and Shrines to “energy”? Who stands as the worlds leader for “energy”, and when that person dies, has the world ever stopped to witness who will replace this new “energy” rep?

The hardness of the heart prevents the acceptance of the simple truth. Look at Pharro when and all the plagues, he still did not acknowledge that GOD was the source.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I am debating a non-believer, and he has come up with a rather strange statement. He hasn’t bothered to really explain it yet, but I think I remember his argument from a previous debate.

He says that the second law of thermodynamics is evidence that if a God existed He could not interfere with the physical world, since the law talks about energy in an isolated physical system, and interference from God would cause energy to escape or be added. Or something.

I want to ask him what he means obviously, but maybe somebody here understands what he might mean? What can I answer?

The Second Law holds that energy cannot be transferred from a body of lesser energy to one of greater energy as a single process.

That actually proves the existence of God. The Universe has infinite potential energy. Hence its Cause must have more than infinite energy.

 

[ricmat]

I can’t comment on quantum physics (I won’t even pretend like I know anything significant about that topic), however the big bang theory doesn’t postulate that there was nothing, and then all of the sudden there was something. It basically states that all matter and energy was condensed and then it rapidly expanded. No mention of matter being created or destroyed.

The last I heard (which WAS a while ago…) was that before the big bang, there was nothing, not even empty space, and no such thing as time. The big bang itself created space and time. Space is still expanding, and time is still running, although at a slower pace than at the beginning. And the matter that is spread throughout space came about from nothing.