Second Sunday of Advent and Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception

[MusicMan]

It seems to me to be simple common sense. You cannot do two of the same thing simultaneously.

I don’t know how to explain it more clearly.

 

[dans0622]

It seems to me to be simple common sense. You cannot do two of the same thing simultaneously.

I don’t know how to explain it more clearly.

Sure, you can’t do something twice at the same time. But, we are not talking about doing something twice at once. We are talking about doing something once for two reasons.

Dan

 

[benedictgal]

Sure, you can’t do something twice at the same time. But, we are not talking about doing something twice at once. We are talking about doing something once for two reasons.

Dan

That is called, in theory, killing two birds with one stone, which, canonically, cannot be done and, morally, shouldn’t be done.

 

[Karenmarie20]

So I realize that Monday is the feast of the Immaculate Conception and is a Holy day of Obligation. I am unable to go to mass in the morning due to dropping kids off at school and I can’t go that night due to my sons Christmas program at the same time as mass!

What I am wondering is how would a vigil mass work the day prior since it is a Sunday? Sunday mass couldn’t be considered a Vigil mass could it? Really need help with this dilemma.

Sincerely,
Karenmarie

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I can’t help about a vigil Mass, but I can suggest that you talk with your pastor. If need be he can give you a dispensation.

 

[Phemie]

So I realize that Monday is the feast of the Immaculate Conception and is a Holy day of Obligation. I am unable to go to mass in the morning due to dropping kids off at school and I can’t go that night due to my sons Christmas program at the same time as mass!

What I am wondering is how would a vigil mass work the day prior since it is a Sunday? Sunday mass couldn’t be considered a Vigil mass could it? Really need help with this dilemma.

Sincerely,
Karenmarie

Canon Law says that any Mass the evening before a Holy Day of obligation meets your obligation.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

Now, I don’t think you can use the one Mass as a 2 for 1. But if you go Sunday morning and again Sunday night you have certainly met your obligation.

 

[Albert15]

If going twice on Sunday to fulfill the obligation feels like you’re doing it just to legally fulfill an obligation and would lose the spirituality, you could try going to Saturday night vigil for your Sunday Mass and Sunday night for you Immac. Conception Mass

 

[FrDavid96]

So I realize that Monday is the feast of the Immaculate Conception and is a Holy day of Obligation. I am unable to go to mass in the morning due to dropping kids off at school and I can’t go that night due to my sons Christmas program at the same time as mass!

What I am wondering is how would a vigil mass work the day prior since it is a Sunday? Sunday mass couldn’t be considered a Vigil mass could it? Really need help with this dilemma.

Sincerely,
Karenmarie

Karenmarie,
A few things: First off, do you intend to go to some Mass for Sunday (Saturday night or Sunday morning perhaps?) I’m asking only to understand your situation, not to imply that you are planning to “skip” Mass.

Next, if you are planning on a Sunday night Mass for the Immaculate Conception (I think that’s what you mean by the question, but am not quite certain), check your parish bulletin to see if they have a Sunday night vigil Mass specifically for the Immaculate Conception. The bulletin will probably say this. If your parish doesn’t have one, is there one in a neighboring parish?

I gather from your question that you were able to find some Sunday evening/night Mass? Is that correct, or were you just asking in case you find one? What I mean is that I’m not sure if you have found a Mass and you’re coming here to see if that is “correct” or if you want to know if you should go looking for a vigil Mass and came here first to make sure you wouldn’t be wasting time looking for one. I can’t tell from your question.

A Sunday evening/night Mass could be considered a vigil Mass for the Immaculate Conception, so the answer to your final question is yes.

 

[benedictgal]

Here are a couple of questions. First off, does any parish in your diocese, within driving distance, have a noon-day Mass?

Second, what time is your son’s Christmas program? If at all possible, try to find a Mass at 5:00PM or slightly later so that all of your family can attend. Remember that your children also need to fulfill this obligation.

Our local Ordinary granted the pastors the option of having a Vigil Mass late afternoon/early evening on Sunday. However, there was a clear stipulation that the readings for the Vigil of the Immaculate Conception should be used. Furthermore, this Mass was not to be a two-for-one deal where it could count for both the Sunday and Holy Day obligation. In other words, you could conceivably go to Mass on Saturday evening (the anticipated Sunday Mass) and then go back on Sunday evening.

One parish, that I know of, is already making use of that option.

I’ll be honest. I do have issues with Christmas programs being put together by schools, especially since, as Catholics, we know full well that we are not in the Christmas season; we are in Advent.

 

[benedictgal]

I found out that one of the parish’s, at least to my knowledge, has taken advantage of the bishop’s offer. They will be celebrating the Vigil Mass on Sunday evening.

In one of the previous posts, a question was brought up regarding extracurricular activities conflicting with Mass. There was an OP in another thread that brought up this same question. In this case, a Christmas program was scheduled the evening of December 8th, placing the OP (and her children) in a pickle.

 

[FrDavid96]

NB: I do not (currently) hold that two obligations may be fulfilled by one Mass, but I do admit to have wavered on the question (and might yet be persuaded to either side). To repeat the dilemma which causes me to wander:
Suppose that between today, Fri 5-Dec-2008, and Tue 9-Dec-2008, I should attend exactly one Mass in a Catholic rite, during the unobjectionably evening hour of 7:45pm Sun 7-Dec.

If I shall have satisfied only one obligation: Which one is it, and which [missed] obligation shall I need bring to confession? How do you know? How do *I *know?


tee

I would answer your question with a question. Your confessor might ask it this way as well: which Mass did you [pause] intend to miss? Or perhaps, which Mass did you fail to properly plan to attend?

 

[benedictgal]

To the OP:

Please do not think that I am sounding judgmental. Granted, I don’t have children (nor am I married, for that matter and I guess that seven dachshunds don’t count, but they are my furbabies), but, I am of the opinion that we have collectively lost our sense of Holy Days of Obligation and their importance.

It’s not you. It’s just a symptom of a deeper issue that we as Catholics face today. Where do our priorities lie? A priest friend of mine preached a solid homily at Mass today, asking us what kind of stories we are telling our children. Are we sharing the Faith with them? Do we value our spiritual lives more than the material? He asked those who are parents if they place a greater emphasis on which college their children will attend over their eternal salvation.

There is a reason, a deep-seeded reason why two Marian (the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception and Our Lady of Guadalupe) feasts are embedded and closely bound to Advent. Admist the hustle and bustle of the secular world’s skewed perception, we need to turn to Mary now more than ever. She is the model of quiet expectation, who listened to the small, still voice of God, through the message the Archangel Gabriel, keeping and pondering the sacred mystery of her maternity in her heart.

 

[IrishAm]

A vigil is a vigil if only it is a vigil.

By that, I mean the Mass you attend on Sunday evening may or may not be a vigil for the Holy Day – it may a Mass for the Second Sunday of Advent.

What it definitely cannot be is BOTH the vigil for the Holy Day AND the Second Sunday of Advent.

As our pastor said, “there are no two-fers.”

 

[MusicMan]

Sure, you can’t do something twice at the same time. But, we are not talking about doing something twice at once. We are talking about doing something once for two reasons.

Dan

We most certainly are talking about doing something twice at once. We are talking about fulfilling the obligation to attend Mass twice at the same time.

 

[FrDavid96]

Sure, you can’t do something twice at the same time. But, we are not talking about doing something twice at once. We are talking about doing something once for two reasons.

Dan

Aye Dan, there’s the rub.

It’s not doing a thing once for two “reasons.” That’s what is tripping you up here. Two reasons might be 1. Because I have an obligation and 2 because my little sister needs a ride to Mass. That’s an example of 2 “reasons” or two needs that might be satisfied by going to a single Mass.

But we’re not talking about 2 reasons, read on:

If Immaculate Conception happened on a Tuesday, how many obligations would we have during the week? Two, of course.

The fact that it falls on a Monday does not alter the fact that we still have two obligations, right? Of course.

Now let’s re-phrase that. Instead of saying we have two obligations, we say that we have an overall obligation to attend two Masses. Still right?

The obligations (note the plural) to attend two distinct Masses cannot be met by attending one Mass. One obligation is fulfilled, but not the other.

 

[minor]

The only authoritative statement I have found on the question of whether a Sunday evening Mass can meet the obligation both
of the Sunday and of a holy day of obligation on Monday is canon 1248:
“The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.”

This canon certainly does not specify that a person must attend Mass on the Sunday and again on the Monday. Why give it that interpretation? To my mind the obligation is fulfilled for both days by the one Mass. On what authority does anyone say otherwise?

 

[FrDavid96]

The only authoritative statement I have found on the question of whether a Sunday evening Mass can meet the obligation both
of the Sunday and of a holy day of obligation on Monday is canon 1248:
“The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.”

This canon certainly does not specify that a person must attend Mass on the Sunday and again on the Monday. Why give it that interpretation? To my mind the obligation is fulfilled for both days by the one Mass. On what authority does anyone say otherwise?

Minor,
There are “2 precepts” one for Sunday, one for the Holy Day. Either one may apply if the times overlap. This isn’t adding a condition to the canon as the application of the canon that “the Mass counts” still applies. But since there are two obligations and not one, only one can be fulfilled with only one Mass.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Suppose that between today, Fri 5-Dec-2008, and Tue 9-Dec-2008, I should attend exactly one Mass in a Catholic rite, during the unobjectionably evening hour of 7:45pm Sun 7-Dec.

If I shall have satisfied only one obligation: Which one is it, and which [missed] obligation shall I need bring to confession? How do you know? How do *I *know?

BTW: Lest I shall have brought anyone scandal by my hypothetical situation:

I assisted at an anticipated Mass for Sunday II Advent last evening, and am scheduled as the reader at a Mass tomorrow morning for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception.


tee

 

[benedictgal]

Allow me to throw another wrinkle into an already somewhat complicated situation. I was at the Cathedral last night and a bulletin announcement was placed indicating that Sunday evening’s (tonight’s) 6:30PM would be the Vigil for the Immaculate Conception.

Why the wrinkle, you are wondering? Well, the announcement comes at the last minute. In other words, the faithful who attend this particular Mass are thinking Sunday obligation even though the liturgy is billed as the vigil for tomorrow. This means that they will have to return tomorrow for Mass while those who saw the bulletin announcement earlier will take advantage of the vigil.

Things would have been a little less convoluted had the announcement been made a week earlier.

That is why I believe it to be problelmatic when we start tooling with the Sunday obligation when the Holy Day immediately follows it. I believe that we should let Sunday be Sunday and the Holy Day be the Holy Day. Now, Christmas is different, very different, because of the nature of the solemnity. This particular vigil outweighs everything else, as it is the Nativity of the Lord.

 

[zab]

Allow me to throw another wrinkle into an already somewhat complicated situation. I was at the Cathedral last night and a bulletin announcement was placed indicating that Sunday evening’s (tonight’s) 6:30PM would be the Vigil for the Immaculate Conception.

Why the wrinkle, you are wondering? Well, the announcement comes at the last minute. In other words, the faithful who attend this particular Mass are thinking Sunday obligation even though the liturgy is billed as the vigil for tomorrow. **This means that they will have to return tomorrow for Mass while those who saw the bulletin announcement earlier will take advantage of the vigil. **

Things would have been a little less convoluted had the announcement been made a week earlier.

That is why I believe it to be problelmatic when we start tooling with the Sunday obligation when the Holy Day immediately follows it. I believe that we should let Sunday be Sunday and the Holy Day be the Holy Day. Now, Christmas is different, very different, because of the nature of the solemnity. This particular vigil outweighs everything else, as it is the Nativity of the Lord.

I don’t think they would have to return to the next morning Mass because they will be attending the Vigil Mass for the feast of the Immaculate Conception. They will have already missed, not through their own fault (unless they were warned the week before) the Sunday Mass. But they may choose if they are able to attend the Morning Mass but I would not think that they would be bound to attend.