Secrecy of Confession

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I’m a Protestant and I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.

How far does the secrecy of the confessional extend?

If a priest was told in confession that a nuke was planted in Manhattan set to go off in a few days, would the priest have to keep quiet about it?

How about if a serial killer confessed and said he wasn’t through killing?
 
BillB2 said:
I’m a Protestant and I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.

How far does the secrecy of the confessional extend?

If a priest was told in confession that a nuke was planted in Manhattan set to go off in a few days, would the priest have to keep quiet about it?
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Yes, even under the pain of death.
How about if a serial killer confessed and said he wasn’t through killing?
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Yes, but he wouldn’t be granted absolution, as he’s obviously not contrite, nor making a firm resolve to amend his life.

The Seal of Confession is absolute. The priest cannot disclose what is said in confession. Spiritual direction is another matter.
 
A priest who doesn’t report those things that put others at great risk is not a good person. His chance of automatic excommunication for reporting is much less important than other lives.
 
Anna_Claire said:
A priest who doesn’t report those things that put others at great risk is not a good person. His chance of automatic excommunication for reporting is much less important than other lives.
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People love playing with extremes. Nothing makes a worse example when it is least likely to occur. So lets say somebody says they have a nuke and the Church says “sure go to the police.” Where does the rationalization stop after that? Does it only apply to nukes? It could be argued a serial killer won’t hurt nearly as many people as a nuke would so maybe the priest wouldn’t have to turn that person in. Or perhaps this priest is particularly appalled by stealing so he decides he has a moral imperative to turn in little Johnny because he seems to have sticky fingers. Do you see how quickly this can go down a rabbit hole? I think if you try to apply this line of thinking to more mundane and common confessions you’ll see that there would be no good reason for a priest to break the seal of confession.

ChadS
 
CAN. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.

In these extreme cases the person is not seeking reconciliation. The person is not contrite and making a mockery of the sacrament. The priest involved must put the lives of others first. There is no sacrament in this case.
 
Anna_Claire said:
CAN. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.

In these extreme cases the person is not seeking reconciliation. The person is not contrite and making a mockery of the sacrament. The priest involved must put the lives of others first. There is no sacrament in this case.
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You opinion is wrong on this. The seal may never be broken. It does not matter if there is sacremental absolution or not. One the confession starts it is protected.
 
BillB2 said:
I’m a Protestant and I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.

How far does the secrecy of the confessional extend?

If a priest was told in confession that a nuke was planted in Manhattan set to go off in a few days, would the priest have to keep quiet about it?

How about if a serial killer confessed and said he wasn’t through killing?
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That’s a good question, that honestly… I don’t know. I would think that if it puts the lives of others in danger, then he would be obligated to tell the authorities, but then again how many people go to confession before detonating a bomb… pretty sure that could potentially put a kink in his plans. lol…God Bless!
 
Anna_Claire said:
A priest who doesn’t report those things that put others at great risk is not a good person. His chance of automatic excommunication for reporting is much less important than other lives.
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Apparently the Church does not agree.
 
I know the teachings and these examples are not examples of what would constitute a confession of sin.
They’re bizarre. No one would come feeling contrite and confess something so violent that they are planning on doing. If they did the priest would be obliged to inform the authorities. There is no sacrament involved in this at all. I’m done with this discussion. It’s not useful or helpful. Is the OP perhaps trying to trick some Catholics? Why did you come to a Catholic site? Are you thinking about becoming Catholic? Go to speak to a priest or spiritual director for answers.
 
Anna_Claire said:
I know the teachings and these examples are not examples of what would constitute a confession of sin.
They’re bizarre. No one would come feeling contrite and confess something so violent that they are planning on doing. If they did the priest would be obliged to inform the authorities. There is no sacrament involved in this at all. I’m done with this discussion. It’s not useful or helpful. Is the OP perhaps trying to trick some Catholics? Why did you come to a Catholic site? Are you thinking about becoming Catholic? Go to speak to a priest or spiritual director for answers.
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Okay, lol. The bolded is plainly wrong.
 
I try to avoid sinning, so it’s not something I ever really thought about, but can one confess sins they haven’t done yet and are planning to do? That doesn’t seem right, but that’s what the OP is asking. He’s not saying a serial killer who killed and is now repentant, the OP is talking about someone who plans on killing in the future (the killing in the past part isn’t the crux of the issue). Same with someone planning on planing a bomb.

But it is a weird, extreme case. It kind of reminds me of the joke about forgetting to go to Mass, so you missed it, but then you cross the international date line and it’s yesterday so you didn’t miss it…
 
There was a recent thread on this topic: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=631718

I think we just have to keep in mind the two applicable canons here: "Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason. …

Can. 984 §1. A confessor is prohibited completely from using knowledge acquired from confession to the detriment of the penitent even when any danger of revelation is excluded. …"

Regarding that other thread, I will admit again that my first post was not correct. My understanding of “detriment of the penitent” was wrong. I tried to correct it later in the thread.

Dan
 
ByzCath said:
You opinion is wrong on this. The seal may never be broken. It does not matter if there is sacremental absolution or not. One the confession starts it is protected.
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I still disagree with the assessment that these examples are subject to the seal of the confessional…

I mean, you are correct that once a confession starts it is protected, but what actually constitutes the start of a confession…? If there is no penitent (aka, someone who is contrite for sins committed), can there even BE a confession to start?
 
promethius said:
I still disagree with the assessment that these examples are subject to the seal of the confessional…

I mean, you are correct that once a confession starts it is protected, but what actually constitutes the start of a confession…? If there is no penitent (aka, someone who is contrite for sins committed), can there even BE a confession to start?
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But don’t confessions have to be heard in confessionals, barring unusual circumstances? If someone comes into a confessional and starts talking, it’s probably a confession. Do we get to decide something isn’t a confession just because someone confesses an extremely serious–as in nuking a city–sin?
 
YoungTradCath said:
But don’t confessions have to be heard in confessionals, barring unusual circumstances? If someone comes into a confessional and starts talking, it’s probably a confession. Do we get to decide something isn’t a confession just because someone confesses an extremely serious–as in nuking a city–sin?
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The question is “What constitutes the beginning of a confession?”

Does stepping into a confessional IMMEDIATELY constitute the beginning of a confession? Does anything that occurs OUTSIDE of the confessional NOT constitute a confession?

For serious reasons, confessions may be held outside of a confessional (for example, the remodelling of part of my church currently has an office being used to hear confessions instead)… so I repeat, what is the requisite criteria necessary to have a confession…???
 
promethius said:
The question is “What constitutes the beginning of a confession?”

Does stepping into a confessional IMMEDIATELY constitute the beginning of a confession? Does anything that occurs OUTSIDE of the confessional NOT constitute a confession?

For serious reasons, confessions may be held outside of a confessional (for example, the remodelling of part of my church currently has an office being used to hear confessions instead)… so I repeat, what is the requisite criteria necessary to have a confession…???
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I think that certainly varies, but when someone walks into a confessional, isn’t it kind of obvious that he wants to confess? When a priest is not in a confessional and nevertheless someone wants to confess to him, the person will generally have to specifically request to do so. I think it is clear in either case when a confession starts: in a confessional, when the person speaks; when not, after he petitions for a confession to be heard and then begins. In those relatively rare cases when scheduled confessions are being heard outside of a confessional (as in, when a church is being remodeled), then the same logic applies here as to inside a confessional: when the person begins his words.

Perhaps NewEnglandPriest can chime in.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I think that certainly varies, but when someone walks into a confessional, isn’t it kind of obvious that he wants to confess? When a priest is not in a confessional and nevertheless someone wants to confess to him, the person will generally have to specifically request to do so. I think it is clear in either case when a confession starts: in a confessional, when the person speaks; when not, after he petitions for a confession to be heard and then begins. In those relatively rare cases when scheduled confessions are being heard outside of a confessional (as in, when a church is being remodeled), then the same logic applies here as to inside a confessional: when the person begins his words.

Perhaps NewEnglandPriest can chime in.
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Perhaps I should have worded my question more plainly… I realize that a confession starts when the penitent begins speaking in a manner understood by both to be a confession. What I meant was “what are the required elements of the sacrament of confession?”

In other words, if I go to mass and father, instead of holding up a valid host, holds up a fruit roll up, I objectively know that what I’m seeing is an invalid sacrament… not the sacrament itself. Valid matter are REQUIREMENTS of initiating the sacrament of the Eucharist. So what are the requirements for there to be a confession (and thus a seal)?

As yet I’ve seen much debate on this matter, and much shouting down of anyone who takes the position that there is such a thing as invalid attempts at “confession” that don’t warrant a seal… but I have yet to find anyone who has answered the question of what elements are required to have a valid confession and seal…
 
The secrets of the sinner is 100% safe with a priest…

As part of the advice and penance he will no doubt urge the sinner to give themselves up and possibly ‘walk’ with the sinner through the whole process of giving themselves up.
The sinner indeed can be very sorry for a crime they are planning to commit and will actually do the crime and can be sorry for any part of it and a priest who is good at listening will spend time trying to help the sinner through and make good and will still be with the sinner even if the sinner don’t make good… Good priests, don’t judge but will ‘walk’ alongside our lives helping us through spiritually and when in times of our need. Priests can be better than our best friend in being able to share the fears and dreams on our hearts without being found out by others as such, if we know how to share our lives with Priest.

I think mosts priests will die before they share anything said in a confession and I think most police and the court officials know this too.
This is how I like to know when people claim priests forget things immediately after a confession. If they forget then they could forget where they heard it and accidently disclose. I personally think they just file in their brains what they hear very carefully so not to accidently disclose.?
 
promethius said:
Perhaps I should have worded my question more plainly… I realize that a confession starts when the penitent begins speaking in a manner understood by both to be a confession. What I meant was “what are the required elements of the sacrament of confession?”

In other words, if I go to mass and father, instead of holding up a valid host, holds up a fruit roll up, I objectively know that what I’m seeing is an invalid sacrament… not the sacrament itself. Valid matter are REQUIREMENTS of initiating the sacrament of the Eucharist. So what are the requirements for there to be a confession (and thus a seal)?

As yet I’ve seen much debate on this matter, and much shouting down of anyone who takes the position that there is such a thing as invalid attempts at “confession” that don’t warrant a seal… but I have yet to find anyone who has answered the question of what elements are required to have a valid confession and seal…
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Ah, I see. For there to be sacramental absolution, a penitent and priest, a contrite heart, sins to confess, a desire to not commit the sins in the future, and a desire to confess are what are required.

I posit that simply an attempt to confess warrants the Seal, and that absolution is not required. That is, if I walk into a confessional and confess my dirt, and Father decides to withhold absolution for whatever reason, he still can’t divulge it just because he withheld the sacrament. I do think the Seal pertains to all confessions understood to be attempts at receiving the sacrament, whether followed by sacramental absolution or not.

Any priests want to give us some help?
 
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