Secrets among spouses?

[carae_domini]

Bear with me, this might get a little long-winded.

Unless someone specifically asks me not to share something personal with my husband, I assume that if necessary, I can share it with him, because we’re married. I know he would never repeat anything I told him in confidence. Honestly, I know so many details about the lives of our friends that I’ve never shared with him for whatever reason, but if I was struggling as a result of any of this knowledge, I would share it with him without hesitation. Again, provided that the person or people in question hadn’t asked me not to.

Enter my husband. Who is a year away from being ordained a permanent deacon. A few weeks ago he came home visibly shaken. He eventually wove a hypothetical question for me about “what if a woman came to me and confided in me, how am I going to handle that in my ministry?” We had a talk about it, and I had a lot of constructive things to say because of a long history of ministry and working with pastors.

The next day he admitted that this had actually already happened - in the morning the previous day, and he was still freaked out twelve hours later. It really, really threw him and he said that he was trying to sort through how to deal with it.

Now, let me say that I don’t want to know this woman’s secret. It’s absolutely none of my business, and I told him that from the get go, though I did say that if he was really that thrown and shaken and he needed to talk with me about it, that unless she asked him not to tell anyone, I think that as a woman it’s safe to assume that a man will share things with his wife if he feels the need to.

Here are my dilemmas:

I don’t even know if this is someone from our parish, someone at work, or someone from another part of his life. I told him that not knowing who she is makes this feel like he is keeping secrets from me, rather than protecting a confidence. he refuses to tell me who she is, or how much contact he has had with her since the initial conversation.

Is it wrong for me to ask him to throw me a bone, for a little bit of accountability? Or am I just supposed to suck it up?

He has said that if things like this are going to be a problem for us, he won’t continue with the Diaconate, but that just seems like a giant cop-out to me. I don’t know whether this person’s revelation to him has anything to do with his being a candidate or not, because he won’t tell me anything, and honestly, something like this could happen whether he’s a deacon or not. (and the whole “our marriage is so important that I’ll drop out if I have to” rings hollow when really, all he has to give me is a little information…nothing that breaks confidence. seems more like “I’ll drop out before I give you one shred of information.”)

Half the time I feel like I might have the strength to let this go, but the other half of the time it makes me crazy. I’m trying to figure out whether I have a legitimate beef here, or whether our marriage is being spiritually attacked - 'cause I sure feel attacked.

Of course we both have people telling us what we want to hear. He asked a deacon, very generally, about confidentiality and the deacon said of course, you must never tell your wife anything about anyone or anything, she will hate it but that’s just too bad. I have friends who are in counseling professions (so they understand confidentiality issues very well) who tell me that he’s totally out of line. So we are kind of at an impasse.

So…I’m a complete stranger! You can tell me the truth! Am I being unreasonable??

 

[Baelor]

Now, let me say that I don’t want to know this woman’s secret. It’s absolutely none of my business, and I told him that from the get go, though I did say that if he was really that thrown and shaken and he needed to talk with me about it, that unless she asked him not to tell anyone, I think that as a woman it’s safe to assume that a man will share things with his wife if he feels the need to.

I am sure that there is some requirement that a current or to-be deacon/clergyman would be able to find easier than I, but my intuition is that there is NO WAY that this is acceptable. The woman presumably confided in him in his (future) capacity as clergyman. If this is the case, then it should be obvious that it is inappropriate for him to share that information with you.

 

[coachdennis]

Even if there is no specific “rule” or “directive” on privacy, I know I would feel uncomfortable if I thought that what I chose to share with a deacon, spiritual director, catechist would become dinner time conversation with their spouses.

It would definitely impact MY decision to share with a person in that position if I suspected this person had no qualms about sharing with a spouse.

 

[Ms_Manners]

Even if there is no specific “rule” or “directive” on privacy, I know I would feel uncomfortable if I thought that what I chose to share with a deacon, spiritual director, catechist would become dinner time conversation with their spouses.

It would definitely impact MY decision to share with a person in that position if I suspected this person had no qualms about sharing with a spouse.

Definitely.
I have never asked a priest not to discuss something we talked about further, but mostly because I never felt it was necessary.
I don’t know if there is a rule regarding anything not said in confession, but I would not feel comfortable knowing that it would not stop with the deacon, if I confided in him (our deacon is also married). As his wife, you should not tempt him to give away other people’s secrets.
As for feeling like he is keeping secrets from you, you will simply have to learn to accept that he cannot always tell you everything and that it will be part of his vocation. Don’t take it personally. You should support him in his work.

Imagine what could happen if she found out, and complained about him to a priest, or told other parishioners. He would lose their trust.

On the other hand, if he feels that you could help the woman in question, even if only because you are a woman too, maybe he could tell her to talk to you if she wants to, or ask if she would mind him discussing it with you, of course assuring her that he would not do so if she objected.

 

[carae_domini]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

 

[Kelfa28]

At the end of the day…sometimes a spouse just can’t open up about everything.

Without going into too much detail…my husband holds a position in the military that makes it illegal for him to share details about the day by day happenings of his job.

It’s a very, very stressful job and, beyond very general hypotheticals, he can’t share what has happened to him that day.

It’s taken a toll on him and sometimes I wish he could share what he’s thinking but I know he can’t.

Lawyers can’t open up to their spouses about their clients and therapists can’t break patient confidentiality and privilege.

I’ve learned to be as supportive as I can in different ways. I always make his favorite lunches and make sure he has a hot meal ready to come home to. Lots of back massages, smiles and I will listen to anything he can tell me (usually gripes about coworkers or bosses or mundane things like the schedule or paperwork)…as boring as it might be.

I don’t bug him for details…I ask him about his day…and he knows that means whatever he can tell me. If I press to much he just jokes “well, ask me in 25 years” which basically means that’s when top secret material has run it’s course and is no longer top secret.

 

[Kelfa28]

Yeah…looks like I did misread your question.

I guess it shouldn’t really matter if your husband tells you…“I’ve had another meeting with her again…”

Letting you know he’s seen her again shouldn’t be a problem…he really isn’t bound like a priest is within confession (priests can’t even give hypotheticals).

But I don’t think you should know who this woman is and, of course, any details about her issue.

My husband has given me broad hypotheticals about some things in work…no details involved.

Lawyers and therapists have very intimate relationships with their clients…I don’t think it’s prudent for them to share with their spouses…who they are seeing now, or that they’ve seen “insert client here” again.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

If she approached him as a candidate for the diaconate, yes, it is appropriate. Once he is ordained, both men and women will be part of his ministry. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect him to restrict his ministry to men only.

If you don’t know whether she approached him as a candidate for the diaconate or not, I would think the most charitable thing to do is assume she did. If, despite that, you and/or your husband still struggle with this, then perhaps the diaconate is not the vocation for him. I don’t think that’s a cop-out - I think that’s being honest, and there would be nothing wrong with abandoning the diaconate for this reason. Those who approach a deacon need to be able to trust in the confidentiality of the exchange. But the deacon also has to be comfortable with this, and if he is not for whatever reason and this discomfort cannot be shaken, then maybe he needs to reexamine what he’s doing.

 

[coachdennis]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

You are very clear, but this is my opinion…

My answer still stays the same. If it is part of his job (ministry) yes. His ability to do HIS job (ministry) is based on HIS ability to be discrete and if there is ANY HINT that his spouse is expecting total openness and sharing, it will negatively impact HIS effectiveness.

If you feel there is something inappropriate about the confidence sharing, that is your issue and definitely needs to be resolved before your husband completes diaconate training

 

[Ms_Manners]

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Her identity is part of her secret.
And the intimate confidence is part of his job.

Be supportive by not trying to find out anything about this woman that she wouldn’t want you to know. Priests hear difficult and even disturbing things, but they must keep them to themselves. Others in their lives have to learn to accept this.

This is not a reflection on your marriage and you shouldn’t take it as lack of communication, trust or anything else.

My answer stands.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

In all fairness to him, he didn’t keep things a total secret. He told you a woman had confided personal things to him. Her identity shouldn’t be necessary.

 

[mountee]

It doesn’t seem like he should have even told you as much as he did since this conversation probably occurred because of his ministry. It is understandable to be shaken by sins or secrets or troubles, but he should be able to find spiritual direction somewhere else, perhaps at his seminary, your parish priest, without raising issues with you. You do have a right to accountability outside of his ministry, but not if this person shared with him as a means of receiving spiritual advice from a Church authority.

 

[1ke]

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Yes because that is a deacon’s JOB.

If you are not comfortable with that, then his suggestion of dropping out of the diaconate is the correct one.

It is my understanding that wives of deacons are supposed to take classes also, so I am surprised this was not already covered.

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

I wouldn’t say nuts. I would say out of line. As a deacon he will be counsleing people, male and female, frequently. It is not your business to know who they are, how frequently they come for counseling, or what they talk about.

 

[RPRPsych]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

I sympathize with your predicament.

Well, if the married man was a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, it would be perfectly appropriate. We call it confidentiality. (I don’t personally face this issue as I’m single, but I have plenty of married colleagues, and they would tell you the same.) Confidentiality can only be breached in two specific circumstances: if the person is at risk of harming himself (i.e., is suicidal) or is at a high risk of harming another person (difficult to assess, but it does happen from time to time.)

But I’m not sure if it applies to your case, because the obligation of confidentiality isn’t specifically part of a deacon’s job. However, if he is involved in a counseling ministry, then counselors are (in principle) bound by the same rules as psychotherapists, so he would be justified in keeping confidence.

My advice (and take it with a grain of salt, as I’m writing as a layman and not as your therapist!) would be to let it go, and just pray for the graces that your husband needs to handle this situation, as well as for the woman concerned. Sometimes the need to know can be an occasion of sin, and this is one of those tricky cases.

 

[Actaeon]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

I guess it’s all really a matter of trust… do you trust your husband that he’s not being inappropriate?

In the ministry, he’s going to occasionally have to help people who have confidence that he’s not going to share that with ANYONE… ANYONE. Not even other ministers and not his spouse. In some of those cases, the situation might be such that even sharing identifying details of the person could reveal something about it that would scandalize the person in question… and if he tells you, you MIGHT become suspicious of other people in your life, and start trying to investigate who is contacting your husband (specifically) and why.

If you trust your husband, let it go with his assurance that he can handle it. If you can’t trust your husband, then he’s absolutely right that he’s not going to make it in the diaconate and that he needs to leave that ministry… but whatever you do, don’t allow him to go into it if you can’t just give him the support he needs without needing additional details for yourself. That’s not fair to him, and you’re only adding to the stress of the situation by trying to force his hand. Like I said, if you can’t handle it, ask him to leave the ministry, because this is the reality of what ministers do.

 

[Cristiano]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

It can be appropriate for a husband to hold such secrets. Just think of the married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches. The are married and they are still bound by the seal of confession.

You have the right to request some level of accountability only under certain conditions. When you agree to your husband to becoming ordained you are giving away your rights in relation to Church issues, if you want to retain all your right as a spouse then you should not give consent to your husband pursuing the diaconate.

You also have to trust your husband and remember that you do not have rights to know everything that your husbands knows, you have rights only in relation to things that concern you as an individual or as a couple, the rest is curiosity and could be gossip as well.

 

[faithfully]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

If the married man is a deacon, YES! It’s appropriate. I was under the impression when a married man becomes a deacon, his wife is educated as well as to what that means. He may very well be called on for councel. Just imagine for a moment if your husband was a therapist or physcologist. Would it be appropriate, let alone legal, for him to break HIPPA laws to bounce things off of you, tell you anything about his patients? It’s the same thing.

Unless your concern is that his contact with her is sexual in nature (which would be inappropriate), sounds to me like he’s doing his job. You both may need to have some conversations as to which hours he’s on the clock. He may need some assistance in setting boundries. Where to meet to discuss, over the phone, etc.

If the married man is an accountant, he should suggest this woman get herself a councelor. IMO, no, he should not be this person’s sounding board and “therapist”, developing a private relationship away from his wife. His job does not require such a thing.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her?

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

I think both of you need to talk to someone about this. He really needs some more training in dealing with what he may encounter as part of his duties, and you need to hear that the confidences he does hear, must stay with him and not be shared with you. Is there some class for spouses? If not, there should be.

Your issue is changed by the fact that your husband is a candidate for deacon. Any ordinary man, probably not a good idea. Deacon - different rules apply.

 

[shainski]

I don’t even know if this is someone from our parish, someone at work, or someone from another part of his life. I told him that not knowing who she is makes this feel like he is keeping secrets from me, rather than protecting a confidence. he refuses to tell me who she is, or how much contact he has had with her since the initial conversation.

Is it wrong for me to ask him to throw me a bone, for a little bit of accountability? Or am I just supposed to suck it up?..

So…I’m a complete stranger! You can tell me the truth! Am I being unreasonable??

I think you are being unreasonable.

And what if he did “throw you a bone”?

If he says - “Yes, it is someone from our parish.” or “someone in our neighborhood”

Would that be enough?

It seems to me that you would then be wondering at everyone who glanced at him or spoke to him socially. Is it she? I think telling you a little bit about it would only whet your appetite for more. (At least it would for me).

I know this is difficult, but he is being upfront with you. I think you need to let it go - or let him withdraw.

 

[maryjk]

sigh

Thanks for your responses, but I am afraid that even though I tried to be very clear, you have misunderstood my question.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO KNOW HER SECRET. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

**My issue is: is it appropriate for a married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman who is not his wife, refusing to reveal her identity or disclose how much contact he has had/is having with her? **

Or am I nuts for requesting some level of accountability?

A married man to have an intimate confidence with a woman that isn’t his wife? No it isn’t appropriate.

But a Deacon counseling a woman with a problem? Yes it is appropriate.

Once your husband is ordained a deacon, he is no longer simply your spouse. He will then also be a Deacon of the Catholic Church. So yes, you are asking too much. His accountability is to the bishop.

Just yesterday, I shared a recent diagnosis with our deacon. I couldn’t walk all the way into church and to the front to receive communion. He, after Mass, found out and brought communion to me. I explain my recent diagnosis. (It is serious) He said he would pray for me. He then ASKED if he could share my information with his wife, so they could add me to their family prayer list. He didn’t just tell his wife, or explain that someone was sick. He was going to say nothing, until I told him he could share it.