Secular arguments against condoms

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semper_catholicus said:
I mean more specifically the pill, even though this thread isn’t about that.
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Right. It’s just that outside of Catholic-oriented study groups (that may be a bit biased), NFP doesn’t do so well as it pertains to failure rates. Artificial contraception like the pill and condoms provide lower pregnancy rates in a more consistent manner with far less investment from the user than the Catholic-sanctioned alternative.

This is probably why his friends may be planning on using them when they choose to become sexually active.
 
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Only complete sexual abstinence is 100% effective, though. STDS and unwanted pregnancies can still occur when using condoms. That’s usually the way public school teachers try to discourage teens from having sex during Sex.Ed programs if they teach from an abstinence-based approach, as they can’t bring up any religious arguments. Thankfully, these consequences do deter a small number of people from engaging in sex outside of marriage (sadly, not most people though).
 
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A vasectomy is probably easier to convince most men not to do than to not use condoms. A lot of men using condoms aren’t looking to be permanently sterilized (vasectomy reversals are not always successful). Many do want at least the possibility of being able to have (more) kids in the future.
 
I am 14 years old and its so that I can defend the faith because I don’t think there are many practising Catholics in my year at school (in the uk its year not grade)
 
It is and feels much better when done with the person you love, are married with, trust and want to have children with.
 
You shouldn’t be discussing sex with strangers on the internet until you are an adult.

Your parents would probably be upset if they knew what you were doing.

The adult thing to do would be to have this discussion with your parents. If you are old enough to talk about sex, you are old enough to have a man to man talk with your dad.

Don’t do it with strangers on the internet.
 
HolySpirit said:
You shouldn’t be discussing sex with strangers on the internet until you are an adult.

Your parents would probably be upset if they knew what you were doing.
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I agree. I wouldn’t have been all too happy if my boys did it when they were minors.
 
I agree with you.

I also can imagine how my father would have reacted if he would have caught me discussing sex on the internet with adults at age 14. It would have been ugly.
 
Belina said:
Only complete sexual abstinence is 100% effective, though.
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So what I’ve never quite understood is, this ‘not 100% effective’ things comes up as a reason not to use contraception, but then the religious objection is that they mean you’re rejecting the possibility of life, but obviously God can quite easily work within anything with a failure rate, so a pill or thin piece of latex is hardly going to stop one from getting pregnant if God wills it.

So the next objection I imagine would be it’s the fact that you’re trying to prevent pregnancy, that you aren’t open to allowing whatever happens to happen, but then why is NFP perfectly fine? You’re still trying to prevent pregnancy, even if you’re doing it using a less effective method.
 
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Belina said:
Only complete sexual abstinence is 100% effective, though. STDS and unwanted pregnancies can still occur when using condoms. That’s usually the way public school teachers try to discourage teens from having sex during Sex.Ed programs if they teach from an abstinence-based approach, as they can’t bring up any religious arguments. Thankfully, these consequences do deter a small number of people from engaging in sex outside of marriage (sadly, not most people though).
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I’m an RN and I know that.

The facts are that condoms used correctly are effective and to say otherwise is incorrect.
 
Just a quick google search
If used correctly 98% success rate.
In real life where people may not used correctly it’s ~85%?

Whereas abstinence if used correctly it is 100% success rate.
 
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I’d personally take an 85% chance of winning a lottery. 😉

The odds are still in the user’s favor, and definitely makes them effective.

Where they’re not effective is in the wrapper - and that’s said as a joke. 15% odds at not getting pregnant are good odds.
 
Oh yeah of course.
It’s just a fact that different people perceive risks and chances differently so it is better to talk in numbers rather than “good” or “effective”.
So I’m glad we agree on the numbers.
People can then differ on how to interpret these numbers.
What I find frustrating in medicine is that in nowhere else in medicine would one not advocate a 100% success rate method over a 98% success rate method.
In oncology a 2% improvement in survival for a new treatment would be all over the news.
 
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HolySpirit said:
You shouldn’t be discussing sex with strangers on the internet until you are an adult.

Your parents would probably be upset if they knew what you were doing.

The adult thing to do would be to have this discussion with your parents. If you are old enough to talk about sex, you are old enough to have a man to man talk with your dad.

Don’t do it with strangers on the internet.
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OP, some people here are assuming you have nice tidy family, with parents who are approachable on this topic. Of course that may not be the case, and that may be why you are here. I would encourage you, if you don’t have parents to approach, to seek out a trusted adult at school or at church to bounce ideas off of or to get information. The internet is probably not the best place to go, because you can’t be sure the people you are talking with have your best interest at heart.
 
ratio1 said:
Oh yeah of course.
It’s just a fact that different people perceive risks and chances differently so it is better to talk in numbers rather than “good” or “effective”.
So glad we agree on the numbers.
People can then differ on how to interpret these numbers.
What I find frustrating in medicine is that in nowhere else in medicine would one not advocate a 100% success rate method over a 98% success rate method.
In oncology a 2% improvement in survival for a new treatment would be all over the news.
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The reasoning is that people will do what they’re going to do - and arming people with facts is the best defense. I’m a military RN and I can’t tell a fully grown consenting adult how to live their life, but if they want to know if condoms are effective, I can show them hard science and reliable statistics.

That’s why the stats are there. The best decisions are the informed ones.
 
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There is a good amount of secular “anti-pill” information out there.

The book “Sweetening The Pill” is well worth reading, and hopefully the film will be completed soon!
 
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