Secular arguments against pedophilia

[John_Savage]

I’m in the military and some of my soldiers who are veterans say that man-boy pedophilia is accepted. Can a secular case be made against that societal practice?

 

[jonathan_hili]

Do they also believe male-female pedophilia is acceptable?

 

[inocente]

Basic morality requires that the parties give consent, and youngsters cannot meaningfully give consent to have sex.

Morally your veterans are arguing that all forms of rape and kidnapping should be accepted.

They are perverts who should be locked up. What military are you in - third world mercenaries or the Taliban?

 

[TarkanAttila]

This might be one of two things: pedophilia proper - what the media accuses priests of doing to this day - and pederasty, which is a sort of romantic relationship between a man and his boy. (This was more common in ancient Greece and Rome, where such relationships often occurred between a teacher and his pupil, or a trainer and his trainee in the infamous gymnasiums.)

Pedophilia proper is argued against the way prostitution, fornication, slavery, extortion, or any other form of human exploitation is: you’re basically using this kid for your own purposes, and then throwing him away like a piece of trash (or into your closet like a fleshlight). What if someone did that to you as a kid? Would it be right to use you like that? To treat you like a mere object of pleasure? Like a sex toy?

I would like to know why, if they do, they think that boy is less of a human than them. Why are they less deserving of respect?

In the case of pederasty, it’s like sodomy, fornication, adultery, divorce. If we misuse our sexuality, only as a thing for pleasure divorced from procreation, we end up with a decreasing human population. That might seem like a good thing - until your retirement is delayed until 30 years after you’re dead. Without people to replace the ones already here, we have fewer and fewer able-bodied men caring for more and more sick and elderly.

So how does this relate to pederasty and sodomy? The emotions are in these, but they lack the procreative aspect. So instead of screwing young boys, get a wife and make babbies and raise 'em.

And if that doesn’t do it for them - which it will not - share this guy with em. Josh Weed is a gay Mormon who has three kids and, in his own words, a better sex life than any of their straight neighbors.

 

[Sky_Pilot]

I was taught in a class on child sexual abuse, that when a child is violated, their emotional maturity ends on that moment.
Violate a child and emotionally they freeze, for their lifetime, at that point.
A five year old will remain forever five – emotionally.
With time the thinking forebrain will learn to imitate adult behaviors; with time the victim will appear normal – until stress hits – then the child comes to the fore.
An example might be a fellow medic who was pulled over by the State Patrol for a minor violation; my partner shook so hard he could barely hand the trooper his driver’s license; afterward he had me drive and it took a while to get him to talk … it was a few years before I found he’d been raped as that five year old, and only then did I put together his speech patterns and verbalized responses as appropriate to a five year old, terrified that he’d just done something bad.
For this reason alone it would be wrong in a secular world.
I will not discuss the physical and psychological damage done a child by such an act.
I have seen that, too, clinically and as an emergnecy responder.
More than two decades “under the siren” and I have a cast iron stomach.
Not much bothers me anymore.
That … is one of the few things that genuinely turns my stomach.
I am nauseated as I write this.

 

[MidnightSun12]

The common secular argument against these disgusting and vile acts is that children are not old enough to give consent. This comes from natural law where (regardless of the society) there are 3 unchangeable factors that are necessary for marriage (which is the only morally acceptable institution where sex can occur):

1. One man, one woman
2. Not closely related in blood
3. Sufficient marrying age (16-18)

Unfortunately, I believe this is going to be a losing argument in the secular world within the next decade. Homosexual “marriage” has set a very dangerous precedent by changing what is truly an unchangeable definition. Afterall, aren’t pedophiles “born this way” as well?

And don’t think that the age of consent laws are going to be anymore unchangeable then laws against sodomy…they won’t be. In fact, our disgusting society already thinks that pre-pubescent children are old enough to give consent or they wouldn’t be making birth control available to 11 year-old children, or allowing evil corporations like Victoria Secret to launch a line of lingere for pre-teen girls:

time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1673227,00.html
theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/24/makes-me-sick-minister-dad-implores-victorias-secret-to-not-target-tweens/

This is extremely scary stuff. We are already seeing in numerous places in the western world, the early signs of legitimizing pedophilia (using the exact same arguments that were used to legitimize homosexual acts back in the 70’s).

As an under 30 male, I honestly have to wonder whether I want to get married and raise children in this society. Will the day come when I can be legally prosecuted for trying to protect my child from a pedophile that wants sex the same way that I can be legally prosecuted today for speaking out against homosexual acts?

God help us all.

That’s not to say that homosexuals or pedophiles should be unjustly discriminated against… they should both treated with respect and be encouraged to carry their crosses while having it made clear that they are never to act on these desires. Any secular argument that accepts one type of disordered sexual act, but rejects the other will ultimately fall on its face.

 

[Jade_Tiger]

You need secular arguments against pedophilia?

 

[mymamamary]

I’m in the military and some of my soldiers who are veterans say that man-boy pedophilia is accepted. Can a secular case be made against that societal practice?

**Now its pedophilia? Sick people, sick world. When will we draw the line? I think I might live to see bestiality legalized. **

 

[Ellen_Mary]

Pedophilia is wrong no matter who the child is. A child should have the right to grow up in a safe environment and be protected by the adults that the child comes into contact with. There is NO reason to rape a child, to sexually abuse or touch inappropriately. As a young 16 year old virgin I was raped. It was a horific moment in my life but I am strong willed so I overcame it.

But if that had happened to me at age 6, I wouldn’t have had the maturity to cope or to understand. Anyone who violates a child is a risk for life, and should in my opinion be castrated or kept in a prison for life. I also found out that my husband was raped as a young teenager by two men. This has obviously been a devastating attack on a child, and I believe it is a reason why he is addicted to porn and masterbation and has been all his life from then on.

A sex attack on a child pedophilia stays with that child as they grow up, and if they are not able to deal with it due to young age, then the effects stay with them for life.

 

[markeverett49]

I’m in the military and some of my soldiers who are veterans say that man-boy pedophilia is accepted. Can a secular case be made against that societal practice?

This sounds odd to me. I have a few questions:

1. Is this “man-boy pedophilia” among soldiers? If the participants are soldiers and the soldiers are of age to serve in the military, then this is not pedophilia.
2. Are the veterans saying that in some places they have been, they have seen people who approved (or at least accepted) such behavior?
3. The secular case was made long ago: adults may not have sexual relations with children below the age of consent. I do know that the age of consent varies among countries, and some want it to be lowered further, but I don’t know anyone who thinks either a) all such laws are wrong or b) one has to be religious to think it wrong to rape a child. (One need not be religious to think it wrong to rape an adult, for that matter!)

 

[John_Savage]

No. They weren’t condoning it. It’s something that people do in Afghanistan. Apparently, it’s OK, meaning people don’t think it’s harmful. I was just wondering that if it doesn’t have a direct harm, what arguments people can use against it.

 

[markeverett49]

Two things. First, most people think there IS a direct harm to an adult raping a child, even if the child does not. (We don’t expect the rapist to object to it.) Second, if it is the case that Afghan law permits adults to rape children because it sees no direct harm, then this law should be changed.

 

[Bradski]

I’m in the military and some of my soldiers who are veterans say that man-boy pedophilia is accepted. Can a secular case be made against that societal practice?

Firstly, I wouldn’t differentiate between same sex and opposite sex paedophilia.

Secondly, I would want to know the ages of the two people to be able to make a personal decision on it. That is, the decision is entirely personal and extremely relative. If you tell a kid that he can’t take a ride on something because he has to be ‘this tall’ then his age doesn’t matter. But how do we say that you can’t have sex until you’re ‘this mature’. We can’t, so we set an arbitrary age. Sixteen seems to be the most popular, although the Catholic Church will allow it as low as 14.

Thirdly, I’d want to know what part of the world in which this was happening. Just from anecdotal evidence, it would appear to me (and I’m no expert so I may well be wrong) that children in some non-Western countries, especially if they have to start working at an earlier age, are more mature than their Western counterparts. Does that mean they are ready to have sex at an earlier age? It used to be common in biblical times, perhaps for the same reason, but I’m not sure…

 

[John_Savage]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

 

[Charlemagne_II]

If the pedophilia includes sodomizing boys, it is unnatural. That is the rational argument against sodomy whether between adults or between adults and children. Between adults and children it is worse, because the adult is corrupting the child into unnatural sex practices.

 

[inocente]

If the pedophilia includes sodomizing boys, it is unnatural. That is the rational argument against sodomy whether between adults or between adults and children. Between adults and children it is worse, because the adult is corrupting the child into unnatural sex practices.

Are you saying that raping a three-year old girl is not corrupting her into unnatural sex practices? That it’s more natural to rape a three-year old girl than rape a three-year old boy?

You might like to try again, this time without the overtones of rampant homophobia and unbridled misogyny.

 

[Ion]

They lose stamina, but this happens in time.
If they want to get back into a civilian life, they should take care about what they think is right or wrong; setting on the wrong path might set them as outcasts.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

inocente

You might like to try again, this time without the overtones of rampant homophobia and unbridled misogyny

If you look at the first post in this thread, you will see that the thread is supposed to be about male pedophilia. I was answering the first post. Obviously female pedophilia is sinful.

So is sodomy in any of its forms. I don’t discriminate. Neither does St. Paul. And neither should you!

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html

 

[LogisticsBranch]

I’m in the military and some of my soldiers who are veterans say that man-boy pedophilia is accepted. Can a secular case be made against that societal practice?

Dear OP John Savage,

Go to the Virtual Health Library’s Database that will help you regarding pedophilia:
bases.bireme.br/cgi-bin/wxislind.exe/iah/online/?IsisScript=iah/iah.xis&base=MEDLINE&lang=i&nextAction=lnk&isisFrom=1&count=10&exprSearch=Pedophilia

You should also read the following from MedlinePlus (A service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine
From the National Institutes of HealthNational Institutes o ), though I present only the being of the article:

*Child abuse - sexual

Child sexual abuse is the deliberate exposure of minor children to sexual activity. This means a child is forced or talked into sex or sexual activities by another person. Such abuse includes:

Oral sex
Pornography
Sexual intercourse
Touching (fondling)*

nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007224.htm

 

[billcu1]

Pedophilia is wrong no matter who the child is. A child should have the right to grow up in a safe environment and be protected by the adults that the child comes into contact with. There is NO reason to rape a child, to sexually abuse or touch inappropriately. As a young 16 year old virgin I was raped. It was a horific moment in my life but I am strong willed so I overcame it.

But if that had happened to me at age 6, I wouldn’t have had the maturity to cope or to understand. Anyone who violates a child is a risk for life, and should in my opinion be castrated or kept in a prison for life. I also found out that my husband was raped as a young teenager by two men. This has obviously been a devastating attack on a child, and I believe it is a reason why he is addicted to porn and masterbation and has been all his life from then on.

A sex attack on a child pedophilia stays with that child as they grow up, and if they are not able to deal with it due to young age, then the effects stay with them for life.

There are a lot of myths out there and hate in the secular world. Casteration only sterilizes someone. They can still reoffend. Most states have laws concerning predators that are a high risk to reoffend. There’s a difference in a “sex offender” and “sexual predator”.