Secular Carmelites and those curious

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Jenlyn:
I really think I heard or read that we are called to contemplation so I was starting to search on the web. I think it was a call from Vatican2 .

Peace,
Jen
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I found the answer to my contemplation question. I found it on page 3 of “Fire Within.”

[Could lofty contemplation actually be for all men and women in all vocations? We shall consider at length the answer that Ss John and Teresa give to this question, and we shall see that for anyone who looks carefully at all the evidence, it is completely clear that their response is resoundingly affirmative. What is more compelling is that the contemporary Church, in her liturgy, in Vatican II and in the new canon law repeatedly takes it for granted that “contemplation”, “mystical treasures” , an “abundance of contemplation”, “the experience of divine things” and “assiduous union with God in prayer” are meant for each and every person in the Church."]

Peace,
Jen
 
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Joysong:
Dear Frances,

I meant to write a thank-you yesterday, after reading the beautiful posts you shared with us - but got involved elsewhere. . . .
It must really be painful for you to be away from community life. I have the same problem, being split between two states for summer and winters. God is good in providing the internet as a refuge for us to be in contact with one another and continue to grow through the inspirations we share.

May God continue to bless you abundantly!
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Dear Joy,

Thank you! It’s been such a delight to find this online “community”; though we are apart, yet in the spirit of Carmel we are living as one. 🙂

Your sister in Carmel,
Frances
“I am a daughter of the Church,” St. Teresa of Jesus
 
Dear Teresa,
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springbreeze:
Dearest Carole

I am very interested in anything you may be able to offer information wise, opinion, direction and/or recommended reading in respect of living in poverty of spirit in the Carmel Rule.

Teresa
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Chapter XXXI from Life of St. Teresa is one that really spoke to me, so I can recommend it quickly. I am beginning to fear that our thread is going to become a book without an index. Since the thread originally asked about the vocational aspects of Carmel, I thought maybe we could begin a separate one citing specifics of our saints’ writings, such as you asked.

Therefore, I will begin the answer over there.
 
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Leo44:
Sorry to disappoint you but no-infact I would say women out number men 10 to 1.
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I looked around me during Mass and realized that most couples together were seniors and that most young people by themselves were women.

During the “RCIA for Catholics” class given by our pastor every Monday evening, men were outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1 (we were only 3).

In this thread, women are 2/3 to 3/4 of the posters.

I don’t think that Catholicism is for sissies, on the contrary, but what is going on with us men??? Has it ever been like this (I’m not 40 yet)?

I realize that Opus Dei has mostly men among its members and its spirituality is quite different from Carmel’s. Yet, God talked to St. Therese while she was busy with her occupations in the convent rather than while she prayed.

Anyway, just thinking aloud looking for a sounding board… 😉

God bless.
 
Are there any Discalced Secular Carmelites here, from the Peoria, Illinois group?

:blessyou:
Annie
 
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buzzcut:
It’s not just Catholicism. I saw an article last year about the lack of men in Protestant churches too. “Why do men avoid going to church, and what can be done about it?”
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I agree with the diagnosis in part, but his proposed solutions are a bit vague and geared towards Protestants in some ways.

I’m afraid that the source of men abandoning the Church is in the culture of death, starting in time with contraception. Then, men and women became mere objects to each other, thus family floundered. If the family flounders, so does the Church. It’s probably quite evident in the priests shortage.

Paul VI was prophetically right and the whole Church, lay and clergy, should counter the culture of death, starting at home and at the pulpit.

But this is a subject for another thread…

God bless you.
 
One thought along these lines, it’s all about parents, we will either develop on our own and find our way in life by making all our own mistakes, or we can take a short cut bu listening to our parents. That is if they are believers, if you see your father praying, as a male child you will have that as an example, if you go to church with both of your parents, again a good example, if as a father you have discussions with your children of spiritual things, pray the rosary together etc. chanches are pretty good you will be in church yourself at a young age. If not they you’ll get there the hard way. It’s all about partents good and bad, same way with the priest shortage. As parents we will all have much to answer for before our GOD.

Your brother in Carmel Leo
 
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Leo44:
As parents we will all have much to answer for before our GOD.
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Indeed so. Someone I regard as a living saint said that a parent has the obligation to lead his or her children to Heaven or it’ll be held against him or her. Not even a priest bears such responsibility.

I’m starting to think that Carmel is wherever we are, in whichever state of our lives.

:blessyou:
 
Your freind is correct, but we lead best by example, we had better walk the walk, if we talk the talk or we risk looking like fools. Above all pray unceasingly, Carmel (OCDS) has been the best teacher for me in my life. For me it has been the pearl of great value.
 
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Leo44:
One thought along these lines, it’s all about parents, we will either develop on our own and find our way in life by making all our own mistakes, or we can take a short cut bu listening to our parents. That is if they are believers, if you see your father praying, as a male child you will have that as an example, if you go to church with both of your parents, again a good example, if as a father you have discussions with your children of spiritual things, pray the rosary together etc. chanches are pretty good you will be in church yourself at a young age. If not they you’ll get there the hard way. It’s all about partents good and bad, same way with the priest shortage. As parents we will all have much to answer for before our GOD.

Your brother in Carmel Leo
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Amen to that. We should all look to St. Therese of Liseaux’s father as a wonderful example of what you’re saying.
 
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DBT:
Amen to that. We should all look to St. Therese of Liseaux’s father as a wonderful example of what you’re saying.
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Good point.

A bit of trivia: in my native Portuguese, St. Therese is known as St. Tess. I think it’s so proper! 😉

:blessyou:
 
Sorry, I was mistaken in my earlier post. Are there any Secular Discalced Carmelites on the forum, from the Peoria Heights, Illinois group?

:blessyou:
Annie
 
Hi AnnieD !

Welcome to the thread. I’m not from the Peoria area but just a little bit further down the road in St. Louis
 
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

There are Lay Carmelites in my area! Waiting to hear from a lady who has pamplets at a local church.

Peace,
Jen
 
Jenlyn said:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

There are Lay Carmelites in my area! Waiting to hear from a lady who has pamplets at a local church.

Peace,
Jen
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Glad to hear it Jen!

AnnieD . . . I’m not from the Peoria area but just down the road a bit in St. Louis. I believe we member from the the Springfield IL area.
 
I talked to a director tonight. Her group is claced rather than disclaced. What are the difference between the two orders?

Peace,
Jen
 
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Jenlyn:
I talked to a director tonight. Her group is claced rather than disclaced. What are the difference between the two orders?

Peace,
Jen
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Just a thought, if you were going to join an order that had been reformed and the reformers declaired Doctors of the Church, why would you want to join the non reformed part of the order? Why would it even exist after all these years? This is not intended to be un chaitable.
 
Hello, Jen,

Basically, calced means “with shoes,” whereas discalced means without shoes. The discalced order wears a simple open sandal.
Beyond that, I have not studied their rule, so it might be a good idea to compare with the secular discalced order, what the differences are in the rule of life to which you will be committing your vocation. I gave you a reference waaaay back in the thread to read the OCDS rule, so I trust you are already familiar with it.

Do they study the writings of the Carmelite Doctors in community? Does the “promise” you will make witness to your spirit? Are they devoted to Our Lady of Mt. Carmel? Is mental prayer a daily rule, along with the LOH? The director should be able to answer some of these questions.

Carole
 
Dear Jenlyn

I hope you are well and such good news for you! Thank God!!

It is late so I will answer your question more fully tomorrow. I am a Third Order O’Carm. formative (TOC). We do do all of those things Carole listed, but I will type the rule for you tomorrow for you to cast your eyes over.

Still ask the Order you will be dealing with.

God Bless you Jenlyn and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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