Secular Franciscan Order and Priesthood

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SenorSalsa

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I have often felt a strong draw towards the Franciscans and their way of life, having interacted with many different groups, CFRs, TORs, Friars of the Atonement, plus many others.

However, I have really felt that my calling is to be in a parish, ministering to a congregation on a weekly basis.

Now over in the AAA forum, I read that Priests can join the SFO.

This raised a couple of questions:
First, would I need the diocese’ permission to join?

I could start the process now, and be done before seminary, would that be a good idea(of course talking to the diocese about what im doing)?

On the .000000001% that I decide it isn’t diocesan life I am called to, is there a process for switching from SFO to a First Order group?

Lastly, if any SFO can share exactly what being part of the SFO is to them, that would be helpful, their constitution, like many Orders’, is quite vague. What obligations do you have, what type of brotherhood do you have, etc.
 
Dear SenorSalsa,
I am not an expert on the Franciscans, but I can offer you some (name removed by moderator)ut on what I know.
SenorSalsa said:
I have often felt a strong draw towards the Franciscans and their way of life, having interacted with many different groups, CFRs, TORs, Friars of the Atonement, plus many others.

However, I have really felt that my calling is to be in a parish, ministering to a congregation on a weekly basis.
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I am not sure if you are aware, but there are some Franciscan communities that do have parish assignments as part of their apostolate. For example, the OFM Cap. in NY assigns some of their brother-priests to parishes.
First, would I need the diocese’ permission to join?
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You do not need permission to join the SFO. Since as an SFO you do not take religious vows, you are not bound to it like you would be in the first order.
I could start the process now, and be done before seminary, would that be a good idea(of course talking to the diocese about what im doing)?
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Sure. It is probably better to join now, and get a feel for Franciscan spirituality, before making any permanent commitments in one direction or the other.
On the .000000001% that I decide it isn’t diocesan life I am called to, is there a process for switching from SFO to a First Order group?
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It is rare, but like many things in religious life, anything is possible, if it is God’s will.

Blessings.

-Davide
 
Rising_Suns said:
Dear SenorSalsa,
I am not an expert on the Franciscans, but I can offer you some (name removed by moderator)ut on what I know.

I am not sure if you are aware, but there are some Franciscan communities that do have parish assignments as part of their apostolate. For example, the OFM Cap. in NY assigns some of their brother-priests to parishes.
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While I know this is true, I am also aware that their first apostolate is spreading the Gospel, not managing a parish, and that a parish assignment is not a guarantee,
 
Assuming vocations increase over time. There is no guarantee of being given an assignment as a Pastor. I know a priest that is still an associaite pastor. Today with all the shortages it is most likely that most priests will be offered or assigned to being Pastors whether they are really qualified or up to the job. Our Pastor and assiciate pastr are TORs. Not all of the Friars that came our way handled it well. One left the priesthood/TOR to marry a women…with permision. Another was just not happy there and moved back to return to college to do something he felt strongly called to do…as a priest. The others are really good priests.

What do you feel called to mostly… Franciscan Spirituality or diocesan priesthood. Let God lead the way… what doors open as you discern? You have to hand these things over to God. Just be open.
 
panoikei said:
Assuming vocations increase over time. There is no guarantee of being given an assignment as a Pastor. I know a priest that is still an associaite pastor. Today with all the shortages it is most likely that most priests will be offered or assigned to being Pastors whether they are really qualified or up to the job. Our Pastor and assiciate pastr are TORs. Not all of the Friars that came our way handled it well. One left the priesthood/TOR to marry a women…with permision. Another was just not happy there and moved back to return to college to do something he felt strongly called to do…as a priest. The others are really good priests.

What do you feel called to mostly… Franciscan Spirituality or diocesan priesthood. Let God lead the way… what doors open as you discern? You have to hand these things over to God. Just be open.
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If it meant always having another priest at the Parish, I would certainly not mind never being Pastor. I sometimes think my church could be run more efficiently if we had a second priest. It, among other things, would open up more opportunities for scheduled confession. Certainly I will continue to discern, and I will be surrounded by Franciscans in a week, as I start school at Franciscan University of Steubenville, so I think by the time I need to decide, I will have a balanced opinion of both lifestyles
 
Great! I want to do the graduate program in Theology via distance from FU.
 
2 former seminarians at the seminary and guess where?

Franciscan University in about 1976 if I remember correctly. Pre-Scott Hahn. I even have one of Fr. Mike former Presisdent of the University. And an oldie Carrie Landry playing guitar. This is the year Amy Grant played there. That’s a story in and of itself. We used to attend the same church her parents belonged to in San Antonio when we were first out of the military.
 
SenorSalsa said:
I have often felt a strong draw towards the Franciscans and their way of life, having interacted with many different groups, CFRs, TORs, Friars of the Atonement, plus many others.

However, I have really felt that my calling is to be in a parish, ministering to a congregation on a weekly basis.

Now over in the AAA forum, I read that Priests can join the SFO.

This raised a couple of questions:
First, would I need the diocese’ permission to join?

I could start the process now, and be done before seminary, would that be a good idea(of course talking to the diocese about what im doing)?

On the .000000001% that I decide it isn’t diocesan life I am called to, is there a process for switching from SFO to a First Order group?

Lastly, if any SFO can share exactly what being part of the SFO is to them, that would be helpful, their constitution, like many Orders’, is quite vague. What obligations do you have, what type of brotherhood do you have, etc.
Click to expand...
Our Order was founded for secular men and women. This includes singles, married persons and secular priests. Bl. John XXIII was a Secular Franciscan. Secular priests do not need permission from their Bishop to join our Order or any secular Order, as their commitment to the Bishop is strictly regarding their functions and duties within the diocese. Their private spiritual life does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Bishop. This is only the case when a priest is a religious. Then his spiritual life falls under the jurisdiction of his religious superior.

Our Order is different from other Secular Orders in several regards.
  1. It is a third order because it was the third order that our holy father St. Francis founded. Unlike the Dominicans where Dominic founded the nuns first and the friars second, but the numbering was changed because at one time there was a belief that an order that had priests was superior to an order that had religious, but no priests, such as a nun’s order.
  2. The Secular Franciscan Order has its own rule written by St. Francis himself. Some secular orders and oblates follow the rule of the friars or monks with the appropriate adaptations for secular life. The Rule of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance (Proper name of the Secular Franciscans) is very different from the Rule of the Friars Minor (OFM, OFM Cap, and OFM Conv). The rule of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance focuses on an on-going life of conversion. The Rule of the Friars Minor focuses on the cross and community. The Rule of the Poor Clares focuses on prayer and community.
  3. The Secular Franciscans have their own local, regional, national and general government that is completely independent from the Friars Minor or any other Franciscan Congregation such as CFRs or Eternal Word Missionaries or Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity. We elect our own superiors and councils and we govern ourselves. The friars or nun serve as spiritual directors, but a spiritual director can also be one the Secular Franciscans, a secular deacon or priest.
  4. Those of us who are single have the option to become consecrated lay men or women through private vows of chastity, poverty and obedience.
  5. If a Secular Franciscan wishes to join another Order or Religious Congregation, he or she must first ask to leave the Secular Franciscans. You cannot be a Secular Franciscan and a Dominican, for example. The Secular Franciscan is considered to be bound for life to the Franciscan Family.
  6. A Secular Franciscan can become a secular priest or deacon without leaving the Order.
  7. You must understand that it takes anywhere from three years to five years to become a fully professed Secular Franciscan, just as the Friars and the Nuns. The period of probation and formation is determined by age and by the will of the fraternity.
  8. It is true that secular Franciscans do not make the same vows as the friars and the nuns as these make solemn vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. However, the three evangelical counsels are built into the Rule and you do make a solemn promise to live according to the Rule of St. Francis until death. Instead of three vows, you make one promise. It is a public promise, not a private promise. Nonetheless, it is easier to be relieved of that promise than to be relieved of solemn vows. Solemn vows can only be dispensed by the Holy See. That’s why most religious make simple vows instead. These can be dispensed by the major superior.
  9. Secular Franciscans do live a very simple lifestyle compared to other secular men and women. I’m not sure of the material requirements of other Secular Orders.
  10. Finally, Secular Franciscans do follow the Franciscan tradition of absolute obedience to the Pope on ALL matters, prudential or otherwise. The only justification for disobedience is something that the Rule of St. Francis recognizes as a sin or that the Church recognizes as a sin. We do not make our own determination of what is or is not sinful. We are very traditional in that regard and our Franciscan identity permeates everything that we do in the secular world, even our political association. Francis is very present in the Franciscan family and is still referred to as Father and is still obeyed without question to this day. We may question someone’s understanding of Francis, but never question Francis himself.
I hope this helps. If I can be of further help, please feel free to let me know.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JR, just two questions, other than that your post was extremely helpful, thank you.

Could you expand on the Private Vows that single people can take? How long does it take to take these vows, how do they differ from the promise you talk about later, etc.

and also, i know that meetings somehow substitute communal life, but how often are these meetings, what other obligations does one have?
 
SenorSalsa said:
Could you expand on the Private Vows that single people can take? How long does it take to take these vows, how do they differ from the promise you talk about later, etc.
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The difference between a vow and a promise is that a vow is between you and God and a promise is between you and the community. Breaking a vow to God can be a mortal sin.

Members of SFO usually make promises but can make vows if they so desire. It is usually between 2 and 3 years after expressing an interest to join SFO that you can make your promises. You also have the option of make temporary promises for up to 3 times before you make your permanent promise/vow.
and also, i know that meetings somehow substitute communal life, but how often are these meetings, what other obligations does one have?
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The meetings are similar to Francis sending his brothers into the world and then coming back together to meet occasionally. The meetings are usually once a month. You are required to attend the meetings unless validly excused. Before you become permanentaly professed you are required to go through formation. The exact method of formation varies fraternity to fraternity but usually involves one other meeting a month for the length of formation.

Other obligations involve:
  1. To provide for the financial security of the fraternity.
  2. To pray the Liturgy of the Hours at least once a day.
  3. To obey the fraternity minister in respect to fraternity meetings
Other requirements (but are harder to quantify) include:
  1. Living a gospel life
  2. Frequent attendance at Mass and use of the Sacrament of reconciliation.
  3. Living a life of poverty, chastity, and obediance as it fits your state in life.
The rule and constitutions for SFO can be found on the following page:
nafra-sfo.org
 
Marauder said:
The difference between a vow and a promise is that a vow is between you and God and a promise is between you and the community. Breaking a vow to God can be a mortal sin.

Members of SFO usually make promises but can make vows if they so desire. It is usually between 2 and 3 years after expressing an interest to join SFO that you can make your promises. You also have the option of make temporary promises for up to 3 times before you make your permanent promise/vow.

The meetings are similar to Francis sending his brothers into the world and then coming back together to meet occasionally. The meetings are usually once a month. You are required to attend the meetings unless validly excused. Before you become permanentaly professed you are required to go through formation. The exact method of formation varies fraternity to fraternity but usually involves one other meeting a month for the length of formation.

Other obligations involve:
  1. To provide for the financial security of the fraternity.
  2. To pray the Liturgy of the Hours at least once a day.
  3. To obey the fraternity minister in respect to fraternity meetings
Other requirements (but are harder to quantify) include:
  1. Living a gospel life
  2. Frequent attendance at Mass and use of the Sacrament of reconciliation.
  3. Living a life of poverty, chastity, and obediance as it fits your state in life.
The rule and constitutions for SFO can be found on the following page:
nafra-sfo.org
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I think you’ve summed it up very well. I’ll piggy-back here on one thing. I made private vows a the end of the novitiate, but that was with the consent of my spiritual director. The SFO does not interfere between you and your spiritual director. Everyone is to have one.

Every community is slightly different, because ages and location. Some are more active in ministry than others. But you can call 1-800-FRANCIS to find communities in your area.

JR 🙂
 
I don’t know if any of you would know this answer, but as a priest, I can expect to be transfered from parish to parish on occasion, thus changing where the closest community would be. I assume that the SFO understands this and makes the process easy enough?
 
SenorSalsa said:
I don’t know if any of you would know this answer, but as a priest, I can expect to be transfered from parish to parish on occasion, thus changing where the closest community would be. I assume that the SFO understands this and makes the process easy enough?
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Yes, all you need to do is get a transfer letter from your original fraternity and present it to the new fraternity. Technically the new fraternity council has to vote on and accept the transfer, but I have never seen anyone rejected. Also if the transfer is still within a resonable driving distance you can still go to the original fraternity. Other then your own personal preference there is no real geographic boundary to the fraternities. You can choose based on time/date of meeting, “flavor” of the group, etc.

P.S. If you have any questions you want to ask outside of the forum, feel free to PM me. I am currently in the candidacy program which means I am in the third stage of becoming a member. First stage is vistor, second stage is inquiry, third stage is candidacy.
 
SenorSalsa said:
I don’t know if any of you would know this answer, but as a priest, I can expect to be transfered from parish to parish on occasion, thus changing where the closest community would be. I assume that the SFO understands this and makes the process easy enough?
Click to expand...
There are many Secular Franciscan deacons, priests and bishops, even several popes. The Order is used to this. We have had clerics among us since the beginning. Unlike the Friars Minor (First Order) the Secular Franciscans do not place restrictions on who can become a cleric. You don’t even have to ask for permission to be ordained as do the Friars. Among the Friars the Pronvincial Superior decides who has a vocation to the priesthood and permanent deacons are not allowed. This is not the case among the Secular Order.

If you need further information, feel free to touch bas with me or any other Brother or Sister in the Order.

Fraternally in St. Francis,

JR 🙂
 
Pax et bonum SenorSalsa

Might want to practice that greeeting since St. Francis of Assisi used to say it quite often. I hope you enjoyed the old picture of the Franciscan University church building. I can’t remember the name of it. But that picture was taken by me not too long after it was built if I rmeember correct. I’m 47 now and planning to send my son there in about 5 years…if he doesn’t go straight to a real 😉 seminary… The young guy in that picture is me on family day at St. Joseph Seminary College. My grandpas passed a couple of years after that. He also went to the seminary in his youth. But he met my grandmother who was quite beautiful in her youth. Our family can be traced to the Louisiana purchase and beyond. Our family helped in the sale of the property… I always have had a problem with that land sale. 😉

You should not have a problem becoming a Secular Franciscan if you choose. I want to do the same and I’m discerning the diaconate. One of our deacons professed to be Franciscan even after his ordination. It’s a wonderful order.
 
panoikei said:
Pax et bonum SenorSalsa

Might want to practice that greeeting since St. Francis of Assisi used to say it quite often. I hope you enjoyed the old picture of the Franciscan University church building. I can’t remember the name of it. But that picture was taken by me not too long after it was built if I rmeember correct. I’m 47 now and planning to send my son there in about 5 years…if he doesn’t go straight to a real 😉 seminary… The young guy in that picture is me on family day at St. Joseph Seminary College. My grandpas passed a couple of years after that. He also went to the seminary in his youth. But he met my grandmother who was quite beautiful in her youth. Our family can be traced to the Louisiana purchase and beyond. Our family helped in the sale of the property… I always have had a problem with that land sale. 😉

You should not have a problem becoming a Secular Franciscan if you choose. I want to do the same and I’m discerning the diaconate. One of our deacons professed to be Franciscan even after his ordination. It’s a wonderful order.
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Indeed, its the Christ the King Chapel, and im about 500 ft from it right now. Not a glorious looking Church, but it has Jesus inside, which is what counts.
 
SenorSalsa, I can’t get your blog link in your signature to work…I would love to read your blog!

God bless,
Dana
 
Ok, this is a question coming from a Presbyterian - or maybe two questions… Does one have to be Catholic to join the SFO? (I guess it IS just one question at this point !)
 
tararae said:
Ok, this is a question coming from a Presbyterian - or maybe two questions… Does one have to be Catholic to join the SFO? (I guess it IS just one question at this point !)
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yes they do, there is an Anglican/Episcopalian version as well, but I assume you would have to belong to that denomination for that to work as well.

Why do you ask?
 
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