Secular historians

  • Thread starter Thread starter duffyk4
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

duffyk4

Guest
What is the general consensus of secular historians when it comes to the history of the church? I only ask this because I believe they’re impartial in this arena. It’s different than someone saying “the church is the one church because the church says so”. If anyone could provide links And sources would be great.
 
Do you realize how big of a question that is? I suppose there isn’t one general consensus overall, but that it varies by time studied, the field and subject being studied, plus much of it would come down to what the historians themselves think. When it comes to the moral and doctrinal positions the Church teaches I don’t think many historians would affirm or deny a particular teaching, but only confirm that it had been a constant teaching.

One book that comes to my mind and I also had the privliege of communicating with the author for a little while is Kenneth Heineman’s, “A Catholic New Deal in Pittsburgh.” It discusses the activities of several labor priests in helping the poor and unemployed during the Great Depression. In general it’s about the Church’s response to this crisis and it digs into some of the Church’s encyclicals and discusses efforts to combat the Communists and Socialists in the area who, with their soup kitchens and bread lines, were doing many of the same things the Catholics were doing also. Overall he treats the Church and its teachings with respect and the faithful, while not a huge part of the story, are seen in a positive light as active participants and people who know what is taught and want to be there, not a bunch of people that are duped or cowed into attending.

I think with many historians though the Church doesn’t come onto their radar screen even when it should or even when it would be nice to see more on it. I’ve read a few different studies on unionism in the steel industry where the role of the Church could’ve been highlighted more or emphasized, but it wasn’t. It was almost like the historian treated it like they treated religion in their own lives, either something done once a week and forgot about or something not practiced at all and when they come across a subject that acts differently than they think they don’t know quite what to do.

ChadS
 
A few months ago I took an American History course at the university I attend. It mentioned Catholics by name 1 time in all the history of the United States, and the only thing it said was that Catholics opposed the Roe V. Wade decision.
I remember learning about Christopher Columbus in public school growing up, but until I joined the K of C I had no idea that he was a Catholic who’s main purpose was to be a missionary. I also understand that the Church had a very large role an underground railroad helping to free slaves while also trying to fight slavery laws in America, but I never saw that in school either. It seems to me that if they are not studying something specifically related to Church history, they ignore the fact that the Church played any role in it…uless of course it is the inquisition, then it’s all the Church.
 
What is the general consensus of secular historians when it comes to the history of the church? I only ask this because I believe they’re impartial in this arena. It’s different than someone saying “the church is the one church because the church says so”. If anyone could provide links And sources would be great.
I have no idea how most of my posting got deleted… Ugh, anyway I was saying that you really can’t trust popular historians so I would be cautious of so called “secular historians”. Particularly History Channel, if anything Jesus shows up on history turn it off. Do the research your self, start by purchasing www.faithdatabase.com. Hanging around these forums will help, also listen to these alabamacatholicresources.com/
 
What is the general consensus of secular historians when it comes to the history of the church? I only ask this because I believe they’re impartial in this arena. It’s different than someone saying “the church is the one church because the church says so”. If anyone could provide links And sources would be great.
Why would you think being a secular historian would make one impartial when researching the Church?

I’m sure we can find some that do there best to be impartial, but much secular research into Church history seems to be done by someone with an axe to grind against either the Catholic Church in particular or religion in general.

Chuck
 
Why would you think being a secular historian would make one impartial when researching the Church?

Chuck
This can’t be understated. There’s this terribly false idea that someone with no religion can be or is an objective source regarding religion. The truth is that there are no absolutely objective historians. All people have biases, and historians are no more or less subject to their own worldviews than anyone else. It’s as though we have this ingrained assumption that secularism is the “default” mode of looking at the world and anyone with religious beliefs are looking at things through their own particular “lenses”.

Except that secularism is, itself, a “lens”.
 
This can’t be understated. There’s this terribly false idea that someone with no religion can be or is an objective source regarding religion. The truth is that there are no absolutely objective historians. All people have biases, and historians are no more or less subject to their own worldviews than anyone else. It’s as though we have this ingrained assumption that secularism is the “default” mode of looking at the world and anyone with religious beliefs are looking at things through their own particular “lenses”.

Except that secularism is, itself, a “lens”.
I agree. A truly secular historian would have to be someone without any experiences with or opinions about religion. They don’t exist. Everyone brings their own viewpoint to any topic; it can’t be prevented. Being a history buff I have noted many instances of two or more people studying the same historical events or people and coming up with very different ideas and opinions about what happened and why.

I like to read from authors who are on the “inside” and from those on the outside, people with different viewpoints. Then I compare what they say, what they emphasize and what they leave out, how they present their material, and what they say about the controversial or debatable aspects of their topic. So I have read histories of Christianity and the Church written by Catholics, by Anglicans, by various Protestants, probably even by agnostics. I learn something from each. The same applies to biblical scholarship. Only in that way can one really work through the biases and agendas to get as close as possible to reality.

There is no such thing as a “secular” historian when it comes to religion.
 
For a more accurate view of the history of Catholicism go to the EWTN website and look in thier audio library. There are two series: Catholicms, the heart of history, and Catholicism in the US.

Both are very good, it is startaling when you listen to these how much of history we are taught is anti-catholic propoganda. Anyways both these audio series will give you a decent overall sweep of what really went on.
 
What is the general consensus of secular historians when it comes to the history of the church? I only ask this because I believe they’re impartial in this arena. It’s different than someone saying “the church is the one church because the church says so”. If anyone could provide links And sources would be great.
Why would you believe they’re impartial in this arena? Do you ever watch the history channel? I would say they have a bias against Christianity. It is hard to be impartial–our beliefs–whatever they are–color how we see things. Color what we discount and what we except–“secular historians” are not exempt–and if the particular historian has any anti-Christian leaning–their reading of history–might be colored by that.

Peace,
Mark
 
Thank you for all the replies, I realize now the error in my wording. What I meant was what is the general consensus of historians who are neither catholic nor Protestant? Just someone I can point to as having no particular leanings in either direction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top