Secular NFP courses?

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D0UBTFIRE

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Hi,

I’m engaged, I have plans to be married in the Church June 2010, I’m not Catholic, but I want to be, and I hope to start RCIA in the fall. I called the local Couple to Couple League teacher today to ask about NFP classes. In our conversation it came up that they only teach couples that are married or engaged, and not couples that are cohabitating. I am cohabitating with my fiance, but we are abstinent (more specifically, we’re being chaste). She said she would inquire about whether or not I could participate in the classes.

I’m currently on birth control pills (my fiance and I were previously sexually active) and I am thinking about getting off of them. I’d like to learn NFP before we get married. I’m concerned that they will not be able to teach us due to my living arrangements. I’ve searched google, but I have not been able to find a secular NFP course. I’m looking for secular because I figure they won’t care if we live together or not. My question is, does anyone know of an organization that teaches NFP from a secular perspective? I would like to look into that incase the CCL refuses to teach us.

No, changing the living arrangements is not an option right now.

I would rather use NFP when married, but if I can’t get someone to teach me, I will most likely be staying on the pill. Yes, I know what the Church teaches on that, so I don’t need any comments regarding that. I’m simply asking for NFP resources incase CCL doesn’t work out for us. Book recommendations are welcomed as well.

Thanks!
 
Why do you have to mention your living arrangements when you sign up for the course? It is just the rule of that instructor not to teach couples who are living together. So you can find another instructor to teach you or have your fiance call back and schedule the classes and not mention that you two are living together. 🙂
 
Tosk said:
Why do you have to mention your living arrangements when you sign up for the course? It is just the rule of that instructor not to teach couples who are living together. So you can find another instructor to teach you or have your fiance call back and schedule the classes and not mention that you two are living together. 🙂
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Well, I mentioned it because since she said that they don’t teach couples that are cohabitating, I didn’t want to be dishonest.

And regarding marriage courses, no we’re not enrolled yet. I’ve talked to the Parish office and the date for the wedding is set. She said the marriage courses would be later in the year, she apparently didn’t have any dates yet.

I am not changing the wedding date. Please understand, I’m not looking to change any of my plans, I simply explained the details of my situation so that the reasons as to why CCL might not be able to help me are made clear.

What I am looking for is an alternative course as a backup. Does anyone know of another NFP course, perhaps one that is secular?
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Well, I mentioned it because since she said that they don’t teach couples that are cohabitating, I didn’t want to be dishonest.
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Well it isn’t dishonest. They don’t have a right to know your living arrangements before they will teach you the classes. Just tell them, nunnya darn business There aren’t any secular classes because nobody who believes that birth control is ok is mad enough to use the most difficult form of BC. 🙂

Just call back CCL and get into some classes, and this time don’t mention you are living with your fiance. But if you really don’t wanna do that just see if you can find a NFP doctor in your area who can teach you. I believe CCL can help you with that.
 
Tosk said:
Well it isn’t dishonest. They don’t have a right to know your living arrangements before they will teach you the classes. Just tell them, nunnya darn business There aren’t any secular classes because nobody who believes that birth control is ok is mad enough to use the most difficult form of BC. 🙂

Just call back CCL and get into some classes, and this time don’t mention you are living with your fiance. But if you really don’t wanna do that just see if you can find a NFP doctor in your area who can teach you. I believe CCL can help you with that.
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Even if I wanted to I couldn’t do what you’re suggesting because they already have my name and my fiances name. She didn’t ask me anyway, I simply volunteered the information when I realized it was against their policy and I volunteered for the sake of honesty.

Are you certain that there are no secular classes available?
 
Hi Doutbtfire,

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage! I hope you are able to find a class and a method of natural family planning that suits you before your wedding. I hope also that your inquiry into the Catholic faith this fall is fruitful and informative.

There are several large national providers of natural family planning methods (i.e., organizations that train health care providers or laymen to instruct couples), and they each teach different methods:

Couple to Couple League teaches sympto-thermal (temps and mucus, mostly)
Pope Paul VI Institute and American Academy of FertilityCare Professionals teach the Creighton method (mucus only)
Marquette University teaches the Marquette method (mucus, temps, electronic fertility monitor)
Billings Ovulation Method of America teaches Billings method (mucus only)
Institute for Reproductive Health teaches Standard Days (a calendar-based method) and TwoDays Method (mucus only)

Of these organizations, the only really secular one is the Institute for Reproductive Health, but most of their work is in developing countries (their methods were designed for use in illiterate populations) and it’ll be difficult for you to find a provider trained in them. Probably, when you say NFP, you’re thinking more about charting temps and mucus anyway, and may not find the IRH methods to your liking. While both are very effective with correct use, Standard Days can only be used by women with regular periods between 26-32 days and Two Days is new enough that most people haven’t even heard of it. Sometimes, local women’s health clinics will host secular fertility awareness classes, and these might be helpful to you, but their instructors will not have been certified by a national provider.

That said, you should be able to find an instructor who will teach you sympto-thermal, Creighton, Marquette, etc. even if you are living with your fiance. As part of my thesis, I’ve been interviewing NFP providers and many have said they’ll teach anyone who comes to them, cohabitating or not. You could try contacting a different CCL teaching couple, and either not tell them you’re living together or ask if it’ll be a problem. Or you could look into a different method (like Marquette) to see if any local providers could teach you and your fiance. The website: www.omsoul.com maintains a list of certified NFP instructors of a variety of methods.

You should know that if you’re on birth control pills, you won’t be able to chart as you learn NFP, because hormonal contraceptives suppress the hormones in your body. You can still take the class, but probably won’t get as much out of it. If you go off the pill, it’ll be tricky to interpret your charts until your body regulates itself (which could take as short as one cycle or as many as six…) but a good NFP instructor should be able to help you chart and interpret anyway, even if your cycles are wacky for a while after coming off contraception. This could be a compelling reason for coming off the pill and learning NFP now, while you are still abstinent. I think if you do this you’ll find it helpful to have the knowledge of your body and your cycles before you get married, and it’ll be much easier to practice NFP to avoid or achieve pregnancy once your cycles are regular.

I hope this was helpful. Good luck and God bless!
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Are you certain that there are no secular classes available?
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In a way all of the classes are going to be secular: the NFP method is not a religious method. The only thing is that the person teaching the method to you is, with almost 100% certainty, going to be a faithful Catholic… or just stark raving mad. 🙂 If you are looking for another class let me recommend the billing’s method. billings-centre.ab.ca/general/index.html

It seems wrong to me that CCL cares about your living arrangements. Although my wife and I had a similar experience with our CCL instructors. They started to lecture us about the evils of sending our children to school, any job that requires travel for the man, any job at all for the woman, pants for women ect… Finally we had to just tell them to just shut up and teach us the d***n class.
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Hi,

I’m engaged, I have plans to be married in the Church June 2010, I’m not Catholic, but I want to be, and I hope to start RCIA in the fall. I called the local Couple to Couple League teacher today to ask about NFP classes. In our conversation it came up that they only teach couples that are married or engaged, and not couples that are cohabitating. I am cohabitating with my fiance, but we are abstinent (more specifically, we’re being chaste). She said she would inquire about whether or not I could participate in the classes.

I’m currently on birth control pills (my fiance and I were previously sexually active) and I am thinking about getting off of them. I’d like to learn NFP before we get married. I’m concerned that they will not be able to teach us due to my living arrangements. I’ve searched google, but I have not been able to find a secular NFP course. I’m looking for secular because I figure they won’t care if we live together or not. My question is, does anyone know of an organization that teaches NFP from a secular perspective? I would like to look into that incase the CCL refuses to teach us.

No, changing the living arrangements is not an option right now.

I would rather use NFP when married, but if I can’t get someone to teach me, I will most likely be staying on the pill. Yes, I know what the Church teaches on that, so I don’t need any comments regarding that. I’m simply asking for NFP resources incase CCL doesn’t work out for us. Book recommendations are welcomed as well.

Thanks!
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I’m really puzzled by this response from the instructor. A woman who is not attached at all can take NFP to learn about her cycle, it’s not just for “engaged” or “married” people. However, in looking at their website, they specifically state they are teaching NFP within the context of the “moral constructs of the Magesterium of the Catholic Church” (ccli.org/nfp) so I suppose they are focusing on married couples. They’ve changed a lot in recent years. I know the Kippleys parted ways with CCLI and started their own website www.nfpandmore.org.

At any rate, this strange comment aside, there are many methods of NFP and Creighton is a medical model so it does teach from a scientific perspective. Creighton info is available at:

www.creightonmodel.com
www.fertilitycare.org

If there is no Creighton instructor in your area, they do have a distance learning option. Creighton is a mucus-only method and can only be learned from one of their certified instructors (I personally learned Creighton and love it).

If you specifically want to learn the Sympto-Thermal Method (STM), which CCL teaches, then look at Northwest Family Services:

www.nwfs.org

They offer an online option if they do not have a teacher in your area and don’t seem to have any restrictions such as mentioned by CCLI. They teach single women or married couples.

Several other methods you might want to consider are Billings Ovulation Model (a mucus only method created by a husband-and-wife doctor team and upon which Dr. Hilger’s based his method, Creighton) and Marquette Model NFP (Marquette was developed by the nursing school at Marquette University and uses Creighton but adds a fertility monitor to the observations).

www.boma-usa.org
marquette.edu/nursing/NFP/Model.shtml

Also, be aware you’ll have to be off the pill for several months before you can learn NFP. You need to have your cycle functioning properly to begin observing your feritlity signs… and it takes a few months for the pill’s effects on your cycle to subside. So, start now! 🙂
 
Tosk said:
There aren’t any secular classes because nobody who believes that birth control is ok is mad enough to use the most difficult form of BC. 🙂
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This is completely untrue.

There are many women who use NFP or FAM who are not religious/Catholic. FAM is extremely popular with women who object to chemicals in their bodies and want to be natural in aspects of their sexual intimacy, child rearing (breastfeeding, etc), and also women who are trying to achieve pregnancy.

Most of them use Toni Weschler’s book Taking Charge Of Your Fertility but some also take classes. Weschler’s book and website are very popular with secular women who oppose birth control devices and methods that include chemicals, surgery, or mutilating themselves or their husbands.
 
Congratulations on the wedding!

We live in a very rural area and learned NFP by picking up one of the Couple to Couple League books and reading it cover to cover and then implementing what we read. I’ve always learned that way so if your the kind of person that is good at teaching yourself things on your own that might be the way to do it. The Couple to Couple league does sell a Home Study Course, which you order online from there site (no questions asked). I would sincerely hope that the CCL would be understanding about this and allow you to take the class.

Here’s the link to order the CCL distance learning kit. We did it with just the book, but it probably would be easier with the entire set (although also more expensive).

ccli.org/shop/onlineshopping.php?criteria=category&f_cat=englishbasic&catpr=2&order_by=name#C

On a totally different note one thing that has really helped me keep track of things is a program that goes with the apple ipod touch or iphone. It’s called the women’s calendar and it tracks temperature, mucus and cervical changes and then makes graphs and predicts safe and unsafe days. I don’t rely on it totally but it’s helpful.

While I think taking the class would definitely be the preferred method of doing this, sometimes it’s not an option and then the distance learning program’s really help.

🙂
 
What I have read on secular courses, is they focus on the absence of a hormonal birth control method - but do not address other moral issues for Catholics. The ones I have read on would allow sexual activity other than intercourse, and the use of a barrier method during the fertile period.

Moral issues set aside - I have personally found the nfp focus on both of those to be positive rather than negative things, as they keep sexuality in a correct loving (rather than lusting) context. I also highly suspect there are some chemical/hormonal issues going on behind the scenes as well - I HIGHLY suspect that, but perhaps just the change in context causes the changes in attitude and behavior my wife and I noticed.
 
chain said:
What I have read on secular courses, is they focus on the absence of a hormonal birth control method - but do not address other moral issues for Catholics. The ones I have read on would allow sexual activity other than intercourse, and the use of a barrier method during the fertile period.

Moral issues set aside - I have personally found the nfp focus on both of those to be positive rather than negative things, as they keep sexuality in a correct loving (rather than lusting) context. I also highly suspect there are some chemical/hormonal issues going on behind the scenes as well - I HIGHLY suspect that, but perhaps just the change in context causes the changes in attitude and behavior my wife and I noticed.
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I think you’re right about the chemical/ hormonal complications that accompany birth control pills. Before I converted I tried several different pills and the ring, with their different hormone levels and each and every one of them caused dramatic mood swings and bouts of depression. When we started NFP we quickly saw a dramatic difference. I’m finally myself! 🙂
 
Others have already given all the resources I know of. I would like to note that one can be BOTH stark, raving mad AND catholic, but that’s a quibble!

Mostly, I’d like to encourage you to tough it out and learn your cycle NOW while the pressure is off and you have time to get all remnants of the pill out of your system. Once you know your body in its natural state you will find practicing NFP a breeze. We use the Billing method and haven’t touched a chart in years. Those who wait until right before marriage (or afterwards) to learn are often the ones who can’t stand the stress or can’t read the symptoms due to pill after-effects, get pregnant and decry the whole NFP experience as ineffective. Don’t be one of them - learn now while there is no pressure.
 
There is no doubt that there are chemical/hormonal effects of hormonal birth control.

What I wonder is if there are other chemical/hormonal effects that are associated with barrier methods and with other sexual activity than intercourse. Does a barrier prevent the natural exchange that would cause a positive chemical/hormonal effect? Does sexual activity outside of intercourse (versus periodic abstence) cause a chemical/hormonal effect. Is there any interaction between these 2 possible effects.

I know there was a difference when my wife and I stopped used a barrier method and started acting like Catholics (we did not try secular nfp)- but I do not know if it was biological, psychological, or spiritual. I simply know it was positive.​

my understanding of secular nfp comes from a christian marriage site - but that site is NOT pro Catholic (lots of bashing, lots of non-catholic ideas). The call secular NFP – FAM Fertility Awareness Method. They have “theological problems” with NFP
 
I’m not very popular in the NFP camp but I’ve done some research on it. If you can’t go to a class why not buy a second hand book on Amazon or a book seller website. I’d recommend Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler aswell as the Art of Natural Family Planning published by the Couple to Couples league. There’s also a free “how to” manual on NFP on the Kippling’s website (founders of the CCL) which has been approved by the US council of bishops.
nfpandmore.org/nfphowto.shtml

I’d also recommend going down to your local large pharmacist as they probably sell fertility monitors that can be used for NFP. Over here they’re manufactured by Unilever which produce Clearplan or Clearblue products and we have a natural contraceptive product called Persona. Even if you do decide to use the contraceptive I would really recommend switching to a more healthier and ethical form than the contraceptive pill. The contraceptive pill can act as an abortifacient in certain cases (up to once a year if we take the pro-life organisations’ estimate). The most ethical form of contraception and healthiest is non-spermicidal condom. Spermicide has been banned or disapproved of by the WHO as it damages the lining of the vagina so a lot of condom manufacturers are switching to non-spermicidal. However, a spermicidal condom may still be more ethical than the pill and cannot cause infertility.

apps.who.int/rhl/rti_sti/nscom2/en/
 
Thanks everyone, you were all very helpful. However, I heard from CCL today and they said it’s okay, that I can in fact participate in the courses with my fiance. So I look forward to that. I also stopped the pill a few days ago…and I feel WEIRD. Hopefully it will be out of my system by the time the classes start (September, I believe).

Thanks again!
 
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