Secular third orders with full habits

[EvelynEVF]

The wooden TAU is quite distinctive and yet does not interrupt secular dress. Personally I’m very happy with that as our habit and I wear it pretty much all the time. i have a nicer one, but the everyday version (wooden) is often clutched and fiddled with by the children I take care of, and a close look reveals very tiny teeth marks from a distressed cat who had his head tucked into my chest.

I think it offers a distinction from the more common cross or crucifix that any Catholic might wear, but is minimal enough to avoid confusing us with religious. (I do also have a TAU pin in enamel, but given that the nuns here wear lapel pins, I usually stick with the wooden pendant)

Evelyn

 

[popsep]

I have had trouble to get in to an order because I am to old. But that didn’t stop our Lord from calling us. Now if men over , 35, 45, 50 all cut off ages, become a third order and take vows then live in community and call it a semi cloister, (They my have to work and come back) can they wear a habit. they would live on there own money. We would do and act just as a real cloister, monastery, or abbey. ( for prayers) What do you think?

 

[perro_sarnoso]

Curious, are there any of these? I know such a thing was perfectly common back in the long day but how about now?

Although less and less - this is still a tradition in many Hispanic countries. The last one I saw was in California, an American lady!
But back in PR, Dominican Republic, Central and S. America - it is still common.

I have considered this…after I retire from my current job. I work as an interpreter in a local hospital.
I have considered following a deeply prayerful and contemplative rule - interspersed with manual work and community service.

 

[JReducation]

I have had trouble to get in to an order because I am to old. But that didn’t stop our Lord from calling us. Now if men over , 35, 45, 50 all cut off ages, become a third order and take vows then live in community and call it a semi cloister, (They my have to work and come back) can they wear a habit. they would live on there own money. We would do and act just as a real cloister, monastery, or abbey. ( for prayers) What do you think?

That would be an association, not a third order. The rules that govern them are different. That’s how my community began.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Hopemercy]

That’s unfortunate, our world needs the witness value of habits (and for that matter, clerical attire, too) more than ever.

Tertiaries should wear the habits of their orders.

No they should emphatically not.

They are lay folk, not religious.

The habit is full time; not to dress up in sometimes.

Our world needs integrity in religious life.

Be happy to be lay and tertiary’ it is unique and beautfil but it is NOT religious life.

In early centuries, some thrid order wore habits but they were totally different form the religious in that order.

 

[Hopemercy]

I think there are some misunderstandings here. The original habit of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance was a tunic without a hood, a scapular and chord. It was usually worn under the street clothing.

The comparison with the Lay Dominicans is not a good one, because the Lay Dominicans are not a canonical order of Pontifical Right. They are an association that is attached to the Dominican Friars. Dominic never intended for them to be an autonomous order. That’s why they wore the same habit as the friars and the nuns. Actually, the black scapular was worn by the Dominican Lay Brothers and Extern Sisters. The Lay Dominicans wore the same habit.

The Order of Friars Minor, the Order of Poor Clares, the Order of the Brothers of Penance, and the Order of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance are all Franciscan, because we are all sons and daughters of Francis of Assisi and he founded all four orders. But they are autonomous. That’s why we never wore the same habit. Even the friars wear different habits according to region, ministries, and the different obediences.

In 1978 Pope Paul VI promulgated the new rule for the Third Order Secular Franciscans. He made several changes to the previous rule.

He changed the name of the order from the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, to the Secular Franciscan Order. He wanted to make sure that the Secular Order was not confused with the Regular Franciscan Order, which is known as the Brothers and Sisters of Penance.

He abolished the habit, because he wanted the Secular Franciscans to project secularity without embracing secularism. He wanted you guys to persevere in the traditions and customs of the Franciscan order, without being confused with the friars, sisters and nuns. It was decided that the Tau would replace the habit. However, those fraternities that had worn the habit for more than 100 years were allowed to keep it.

It was also Pope Paul’s desire to see the Secular Franciscans more involved in the apostolic work of the local diocese as a group that would set the example for other secular men and women. It was his opinion that the use of a habit would not be effective, because you would look like religious. Therefore, other secular men and women would not be inclined to follow.

Since the rules of the four Franciscan obediences are issued with Papal Bulls, the current rule for the Secular Franciscan Order is canonically binding on all Secular Franciscans and on the rest of the Church. This means that those of us who are not Secular Franciscans, must accept the Secular Franciscans as they are described in the rule and neither laity nor bishops can interfere with them or dictate to them. Nor may we friars or the sisters and nuns dictate to them in any way, unlike the Dominicans and Carmelites who do have authority over their third orders, because they are not canonical pontifical orders as are the Secular Franciscans.

Until such time as another Pontiff raises the Papal Bull and authorizes a rewrite of the current rule, the SFO rule must be observed as is. The problem is not the rule nor the absence of a habit. The problem are the constitutions of the SFO. Those were not dictated by the pope. Those were written by the delegates to the General Chatper of 2000 and voted on by the membership of the order. In my opinion, those constitutions fail to apply the rule correctly. They confuse secularity with secularism and include an excessive enphasis on secular life of the brothers and sisters and fail to say enough about fidelity to Franciscan tradition and spirituality.

If you read the consitutions of any of the branches of friars, they are very spiritual and very theological. They have very few references to what to do when to do it and why do it. They speak about the spirit of St. Francis and provide an explanation for each point. For example, it speaks about fraternity and then explains what constitutes fraternity and why it was important to our Holy Father. Things like this are missing from the constitutions of the SFO.

Even if they wore a habit, without the spirituality, the habit is just a costume.
Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Exactly so

 

[Hopemercy]

Certainly not for the Confraternity of Penitents…:nope:

penitents.org/

I think ANY lay Catholic Lay Person should be allowed to wear a habit on special occasions, with permission from their Priest and/or Spiritual Advisor.:yup:

I mean…does the term “witness” mean anything anymore? With so many Priests dressing in secular clothing more and more of the time outside church?:sad_yes:

WItness is how you live your life; not by dressing up in costumes

Witness is your holliness and goodness and you total life in Jesus.

And of course wearing a religious habit when you are lay is going to confuse and dilute issues even more.

Because you are not a Nun or a monk.

 

[Hopemercy]

Br JR, you know more about the SFO than half the SFOs I’ve met

Personally, as an SFO myself, I’m quite content to have the Tau as my habit rather than something larger. I am not a Poor Clare wannabe, nor a friar-ette. I am a Secular, and I wear my secular clothes appropriate to my secular life, with an obvious Tau on my person somewhere. Always my ring, but also often a pendant (the ubiquitous wooden one, or a gold one with the crossed arms on it) and sometimes a beautiful San Damiano crucifix, which isn’t the habit but is distinctively Franciscan. My wooden Tau has teeth marks on it from a toddler I babysit

Of course if anything else is ever mandated, I will wear it cheerfully.

I just wanted to point out that some of us are faithful to our vocations and to the magisterium, and don’t feel like we need a “full” habit to live effectively.

Thank you for this.

 

[janessa1850]

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I am on retreat at a very contemporary Benedictine monastery. This am at their Mass in their lovely, modern chapel, I noticed that one could not tell the members of the general public from the Sisters. Some wore a small St. Benedict medal, but otherwise, they completely blended in with the visitors. I read a quote somewhere but don’t remember who said it: “When religious orders blend in, they disappear.”

These benedictines have no younger persons joining their ranks. I was told that last year, they had 3 persons doing a live-in program with them. All 3 are now gone. I met two persons currently in the live-in program and they were undecided.

My point is that I know from being a Catholic who no longer sees nuns, that the general public–especially Catholics--want to see nuns. They want visible evidence that God is among us. These are very frightening times for people. Seeing the witness of religious in their habits------priests too----gives hope to people and makes them feel more secure. For every person who might be “turned off”, as they say, by a habit, I feel there is someone else who is* drawn* by the habit. Sometimes I feel it is a betrayal of who a religious person really is and what they stand for, to remove their habit and pretend “I’m just aregular person.” One who gives their life as an oblation to the Lord is not simply a “regular person” at all, in my estimation. Not that they are better either. But we should be able to recognize our dear persons who have given up secular life and taken a vocation with God so we can show them respect, pray for them, ask their counsel, ask them for prayers, etc.*** After all, that is what they signed up for!*** And despite any suppressions or canon law to the contrary, I believe third-secular-oblate-or whatever should be permitted if they desire, to wear a habit of their order of any type which was worn in their history. Catherine of Sienna, save your tunic for me!

 

[TiggerS]

What is identified as a religious habit is for those consecrated to the religious life; however, there is nothing to prevent a secular person from wearing standard clothing of particular design and color that does not resemble a religious habit.

 

[janessa1850]

Can anyone tell me more about the Shoenstatt Sisters. I followed the link someone here gave, but I found very little info and some was in German.

Please pray for the Restoration of the Soul of America and the Whole World.

 

[janessa1850]

I agree with Diaconia. The value of Christian Witness cannot be over emphasized in these times. Atheists are making concerted efforts through advertising to undermine God and try to humiliate the idea of being a believing person of faith. The radical and militant side of Islam has, as its overriding goal, to conquer all other faiths, and they especially hate the West; America is particular. There are forces we don’t even see that are seeking the fall of Christianity. In the face of all that is happening, many maintain that we should shut up, sit down, and be good little quiet, apathetic children because a church says we cannot make any visible witness of our consecration to Christ if we are considered a “lay” person?

Jesus came to get rid of Law. Law is a thing to be used on barbarians and criminals. Jesus replaced the law with love. We are now living under love. Those not living under love may be caught by law, but for those real, committed Discipples of Jesus, Law cannot apply. They are bound by the Spirit of Love.



Please pray for the Restoration of the Soul of America and the Whole World

 

[janessa1850]

Dear JR—I totally respect where you’re coming from and I think most if not everyone understands your very good quote: " Even if they wore a habit, without the spirituality, the habit is just a costume."

I agree that we need to be very careful with regard to the wearing of a habit. By what you have written, it is obvious you understand the power the habit has. Those who are permitted to or required to wear habits need to be careful too, since the public is keenly aware that so many (priests who wear the much-respected collar) have so heinously trangressed against their own parishioners in the past. We now know about these crimes and I have heard non-Catholics speak against the entire RC Church because of the said priest scandal. If a bunch of people who were not sincere and were not committed to Christ and had not been properly prepared by the Holy Spirit, ran around in habits and behaved badly, it would do a lot of harm to the state of consecrated life and to the church. But I don’t see a lot of evidence that that is what we’re discussing here.

For my part, I am talking about persons who are sincere, who are committed Disciples, who desire to minister in a sphere of life where they have skill or talents, and feel, consistently, prayerfully, and for a long period of time, that the Holy Mother Spirit is calling them to do this. Some people live far from any secular institute. Some have no transportation. Some are buried in responsibilities and/or work.In cases such as this, do you believe the Church laws should be obeyed over the Holy Spirit’s urgings?

 

[EvelynEVF]

Janessa,

As an SFO, the Church does not by any means forbid me from making a “visible witness of [my] consecration to Christ”!

I was just at the weekend business meeting of a non-religious organization. I wore my wooden TAU cross, as I always do. It’s about an inch and a half tall, on a brown string. It was a very, very visible witness. The Catholics there knew I was a Franciscan of some stripe, those familiar with Christian symbols asked if it was a cross, and those who had no religious knowledge/background at all knew it was at least something important. The combination of recognition and questions resulted in me telling the whole story of my conversion and my vocation to a large group of people.

It’s not a full habit, but it’s still a habit and still a very clear identifier, combined with where and how I carry myself, etc.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I just read through this thread and Brother JR does his normal great job.

But then the thread seemed to side track into the SFO being an Order and hence different from all the other third orders.

That’s unfortunate, our world needs the witness value of habits (and for that matter, clerical attire, too) more than ever.

Tertiaries should wear the habits of their orders.

This is a misunderstanding of the habit that seem to be prevalent here at CAF.

The habit is not worn as a witness.

Tertiaries should not wear the habit of their overseeing order. They can have some distinctive dress, like the Tau for Franciscans or the larger than normal brown scapular that secular carmelites (T.Ocarm and OCDS) wear.

 

[jwinch2]

I just read through this thread and Brother JR does his normal great job.

But then the thread seemed to side track into the SFO being an Order and hence different from all the other third orders.

This is a misunderstanding of the habit that seem to be prevalent here at CAF.

The habit is not worn as a witness.

Tertiaries should not wear the habit of their overseeing order. They can have some distinctive dress, like the Tau for Franciscans or the larger than normal brown scapular that secular carmelites (T.Ocarm and OCDS) wear.

My formation with the Dominican laity starts in a couple of weeks and this is something that I have thought about a bit through the various threads where this topic has come up here on CAF. Personally, I think the idea of wearing of the habit lay member of an order is a bit off from the goal of having tertiaries in the first place. From the charism of the Dominican laity it is quite clear that the goal is for members to follow the life of Saint Dominic within the role of their secular lives. Walking around in a habit would automatically separate those wearing them from non-professed lay persons or the non-faithful and I actually believe would cause more harm then good.

As for sisters or nuns wearing a habit, to me that is a different discussion. It is my understanding that some congregations of sisters have it written in their constitution that they are not supposed to wear anything distinguishing themselves and others have requirements to wear the habit. One should not condemn or look down on those who are merely following their constitution by not wearing the habit. It makes them no less professed or religious as a result.

Having said that, I certainly enjoy seeing sisters around and love the good work that they do. I do “get” the feeling that others have expressed that I like to see sisters in their habits. To me, that is understandable.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

My formation with the Dominican laity starts in a couple of weeks and this is something that I have thought about a bit through the various threads where this topic has come up here on CAF. Personally, I think the idea of wearing of the habit lay member of an order is a bit off from the goal of having tertiaries in the first place. From the charism of the Dominican laity it is quite clear that the goal is for members to follow the life of Saint Dominic within the role of their secular lives. Walking around in a habit would automatically separate those wearing them from non-professed lay persons or the non-faithful and I actually believe would cause more harm then good.

As for sisters or nuns wearing a habit, to me that is a different discussion. It is my understanding that some congregations of sisters have it written in their constitution that they are not supposed to wear anything distinguishing themselves and others have requirements to wear the habit. One should not condemn or look down on those who are merely following their constitution by not wearing the habit. It makes them no less professed or religious as a result.

Having said that, I certainly enjoy seeing sisters around and love the good work that they do. I do “get” the feeling that others have expressed that I like to see sisters in their habits. To me, that is understandable.

I would state it in a different way.

Saying “I like to see sisters in their habits” can sound like a value judgement. That somehow sisters who do not wear a habit are doing something wrong.

I would state it this way “I like to see sisters, who’s congregation has a habit, wearing that habit.”

I do not value a religious in a habit any more than I value a religious who is in an religious congregation/institute that does not have a habit.

I do agree with your perspective on tertiaries.

 

[jwinch2]

I would state it in a different way.

Saying “I like to see sisters in their habits” can sound like a value judgement. That somehow sisters who do not wear a habit are doing something wrong.

It was intended to be a value statement. Intellectually, I know that sisters wearing a habit are no different than those who do not. I was attempting to explain that I understand the feelings of those who prefer to see sisters in habits. I don’t agree with them as I believe that congregations should absolutely follow their constitution regarding such things. However, I understand the sentiment, expressed by some, that seeing sisters performing their work in religious dress can be a powerful witness.

Put simply, I get it, even thought I don’t agree with it.

I do not value a religious in a habit any more than I value a religious who is in an religious congregation/institute that does not have a habit.

Me either. Not in the slightest…

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It was intended to be a value statement. Intellectually, I know that sisters wearing a habit are no different than those who do not. I was attempting to explain that I understand the feelings of those who prefer to see sisters in habits. I don’t agree with them as I believe that congregations should absolutely follow their constitution regarding such things. However, I understand the sentiment, expressed by some, that seeing sisters performing their work in religious dress can be a powerful witness.

Put simply, I get it, even thought I don’t agree with it.

Me either. Not in the slightest…

Yet as I said, the religious do not wear their habits to be a witness.

The laity that think so are getting it just plain wrong.

The habit is not worn for lay people. These people are just projecting something of their own issues onto religious.

The witness that a religious lives, which every religious lives regardless of a habit, is our public vows, be they simple or solemn.

 

[jwinch2]

Yet as I said, the religious do not wear their habits to be a witness.

Yet Blessed John Paul II suggests just the opposite in Vita consecrata.
The Church must always seek to make her presence visible in everyday life, especially in contemporary culture, which is often very secularized and yet sensitive to the language of signs. In this regard the Church has a right to expect a significant contribution from consecrated persons, called as they are in every situation to bear clear witness that they belong to Christ.
Since the habit is a sign of consecration, poverty and membership in a particular Religious family, I join the Fathers of the Synod in strongly recommending to men and women religious that they wear their proper habit, suitably adapted to the conditions of time and place.

Obviously the Pope was not suggesting that congregations who are not supposed to wear the habit don it as a sign to the faithful. In fact, he goes on in* Vita consecrata* to say the exact opposite.
Where valid reasons of their apostolate call for it, Religious, in conformity with the norms of their Institute, may also dress in a simple and modest manner, with an appropriate symbol, in such a way that their consecration is recognizable.

Why would it be important for their consecration to be recognizable if it were not an important sign in some respect? This seems to strongly resonate with his early statement that the habit is to be worn as a visible witness to the consecrated life.

I would suggest that a reasonable person could conclude from Blessed JP2’s statement that one of the purposes of the habit or other sign of consecration is to serve as a visible sign or witness to religious life.

The laity that think so are getting it just plain wrong.

Perhaps. The above mentioned quote would seem to disagree.

The habit is not worn for lay people. These people are just projecting something of their own issues onto religious.

I don’t think so. The Laity have every right to expect that their religious act like religious. To some, perhaps due to poor catechesis and lack of understanding of religious life in general, this includes dressing in the habit. They can be right or they can be wrong however, neither one imply they are projecting issues. Though I have read enough of your posts that I am confident that you did not intend it this way, comments which suggest they are projecting issues frankly come across as condescending.

The witness that a religious lives, which every religious lives regardless of a habit, is our public vows, be they simple or solemn.

Agreed. I would never suggest for one moment that the wearing of a habit or lack thereof in anyway affects the magnitude of the vows which are undertaken by religious.