Secularism and atheism are more of a threat than Islam will ever be.

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AgnosTheist said:
Humanists value human life. (well, not the unborn)
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I am curious. On what basis do secular humanists value human life? And, how do secular humanists define what is human life (i.e. the unborn, mentally disabled, comatose, etc.)?
 
AgnosTheist said:
islam kills because of its religious ideology.

please, learn to distinguish different secular ideologies. Humanists value human life. (well, not the unborn)
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If they don’t even value the child in its mother’s womb, then they do not value life.
 
AgnosTheist said:
islam kills because of its religious ideology.

please, learn to distinguish different secular ideologies. Humanists value human life. (well, not the unborn)
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Well that means that they do not value all human life. Anyway, don’t you think that many secular principles are based on Christian morality anyway? Not on abortion though.

If not, how does a secular society establish its principles?
 
What some fail to realize is that Islam is not only a religion but an ideology. In my country, when you think you are living peacefully and everything is cool, you hear everyday on tv about a new jihadist fundamentalist Islamic group seeking to establish the Imara or islamic sharia or Imamate and Mahdi state that one wonders if we are still living in the same country we used to live in …thats because IT IS THEIR IDEOLOGY. Whenever they are a minority, they do nothing. When they get a big number of adherents, they start establishing their ideology by prohibiting this and allowing that and issuing fatwas against this and that and controlling these areas and those schools and even using intelligence agents to give them info that you cannot even ENTER an Islamic area without being spied or without even presenting your credentials in your own country. At least try to learn something from your fellows who live among them. You cannot differentiate between moderate Muslims and extremist ones simply because you cannot differentiate between Islam and political/religious ideolgies.
 
JimO said:
I am curious. On what basis do secular humanists value human life? And, how do secular humanists define what is human life (i.e. the unborn, mentally disabled, comatose, etc.)?
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I would like to know as well. It seems that ironically, its the Christian foundation for their idealogies that prevents them from promoting a culture of death. To a lesser extent anyway.
 
AgnosTheist said:
it is. thats why its not so bad. 🙂
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If there is no God or no authority transcendent of humanity, then how can you say that Christian principles are any better than Muslim principles or the principles established by the Aztecs, who partook in human sacrifice, or any of the cannabilistic tribes that have existed? If humanity is the ultimate authority on morality, then who is right? And, why does it matter?
 
East_and_West said:
Well. How can you say that a person values human life when such a person is ok with the murder of the most innocent forms of human life?
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there is too much debate on this already. it would only derail this thread.
 
JimO said:
If there is no God or no authority transcendent of humanity, then how can you say that Christian principles are any better than Muslim principles or the principles established by the Aztecs, who partook in human sacrifice, or any of the cannabilistic tribes that have existed? If humanity is the ultimate authority on morality, then who is right? And, why does it matter?
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The bolded part moved me, I don’t know why exactly. But why indeed! If Christian morality is subjective or not right, why would anything matter anymore? There is no purpose or grounding for any humane and stable civilisation. I guess other religions may debate what Ive just said, but anyway.
 
AgnosTheist said:
there is too much debate on this already. it would only derail this thread.
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There is no need for debate. It is such a clear matter. Those who are pro choice are either completely dishonest or completely insane.
 
East_and_West said:
Those who are pro choice are either completely dishonest or completely insane.
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i’d say that those with a black & white view are completely delusional. extremists. fanatics who cant see that human life is mostly gray.
 
AgnosTheist said:
there is too much debate on this already. it would only derail this thread.
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Yeah youre right, even though you might be bailing from the question. Just kidding.

Agnos, would you say that abortion would be a part and parcel of a purely “secularist” society? On what basis though? freedom? convenience? selfishness?
 
AgnosTheist said:
i’d say that those with a black & white view are completely delusional. extremists. fanatics who cant see that human life is mostly gray.
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sadly thats a good point. I wonder if we weren’t Catholic, whether we would be so clear in our opposition of abortion.
 
MH84 said:
Agnos, would you say that abortion would be a part and parcel of a purely “secularist” society? On what basis though? freedom? convenience? selfishness?
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parcel? i dont understand.

its mostly selfish, though.
 
MH84 said:
sadly thats a good point. I wonder if we weren’t Catholic, whether we would be so clear in our opposition of abortion.
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nothing wrong with having a stand on non-abortion. but to generalize pro-choice people as incapable of seeing value in human life…thats extreme.
 
AgnosTheist said:
i’d say that those with a black & white view are completely delusional. extremists. fanatics who cant see that human life is mostly gray.
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No, not really. The aruguement you presenting is simply silly. Just because some one believes something to be true does not make the person an extremist or fanatic. It might make him delusional if what he believes is not true but the pro life position is the correct position. Therefore, the person who is prolife and believes the issue to be balck and white is not delusional.
However, the person who is pro choice is of a completely different breed. This is a person who believes that it is morally acceptable to murder the smallest, weakest, and most innocent of human life. Such is complete insanity. But if the person is not insane, then they must be dishonest because they are propgating the lie that infanticide is morally acceptable.
 
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