Secularism

[Delta2]

I saw in another thread why don’t fight against secularism ?

I thing Jesus was very clear when He said :

**
(Matthew 22,21)
…Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.**

The darkest ages in history was when Religion and Politics was mixed together

Inquisition was one of that times, something that was created to be something good it turned out to be something bad. The Pope received a lot of schism threats from Kings, the seconds demanded full control of inquisition. That occurred in Portugal with Marquês de Pombal minister, he put his brother as master-chief of inquisition in Portugal against the Pope will. Spain almost the same.

I’m portuguese and know my history

God wants us to be free and not slaves or robots, He doesn’t depend in anything, the only thing that His creation can give Him is only love, voluntary love because He doesn’t force us to Love Him

So, I agree with secularism, in fact the drawback of Islam today is the lack of secularism revolution that occurred in Europe centuries ago, it didn’t adapted to the modern world and democracy.

Whereas the Europe was deep in darkness centuries ago, Arab culture and Religion was more adapted at that time, very reach indeed, but now it is stuck into the past

What you think about secularism ? good ? bad ?

 

[cheese_sdc]

I’m all for separation of Church and State.

 

[Rocky]

I, too, am all for separation of Church and state. However not everything secularism espouses is good— especially when politically correct speech and thought is taking over. IMHO there are those whose religion is secularism, and oftentimes those secularists want to take away rights from those who believe in a religion.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I think there is a difference between separation of church and state as intended by the Founding Fathers of the United States and the extreme secularism of the ACLU and their allies. One allows for freedom of religion while the other thinks religion is best kept in private homes and church buildings, with no place in the public square. Too much secularism, like a theocracy, can be a bad thing.

 

[Contarini]

I saw in another thread why don’t fight against secularism ?

I thing Jesus was very clear when He said :

**
(Matthew 22,21)
…Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.**

The darkest ages in history was when Religion and Politics was mixed together

Inquisition was one of that times, something that was created to be something good it turned out to be something bad. The Pope received a lot of schism threats from Kings, the seconds demanded full control of inquisition. That occurred in Portugal with Marquês de Pombal minister, he put his brother as master-chief of inquisition in Portugal against the Pope will. Spain almost the same.

I’m portuguese and know my history

God wants us to be free and not slaves or robots, He doesn’t depend in anything, the only thing that His creation can give Him is only love, voluntary love because He doesn’t force us to Love Him

So, I agree with secularism, in fact the drawback of Islam today is the lack of secularism revolution that occurred in Europe centuries ago, it didn’t adapted to the modern world and democracy.

Whereas the Europe was deep in darkness centuries ago, Arab culture and Religion was more adapted at that time, very reach indeed, but now it is stuck into the past

What you think about secularism ? good ? bad ?

I think that “secularism” means something different for you as a European than it does for Americans. Remember that Americans have a tradition of church-state separation. That is not what “secularism” means for Americans. What most American Christians mean by “secularism” is something like: “the world can be explained without reference to God, and therefore religion should either be rejected or confined to its own limited sphere as the beliefs some individuals choose to hold for their own private reasons with no real connection to anything else.”

The problem in Europe is precisely that because of the history of church-state alliance “secularism” in the sense of church-state separation can be understood to imply “secularism” in this second sense as well. Some in America argue for this as well.

Wouldn’t you agree that Christians should act in a manner inspired by the Christian faith, whether they are intellectuals, politicians, or whatever?

I would actually argue that in your country in particular the problem was not too little secularism in the past but too much. The Portuguese seem to me to have systematically disregarded the teachings of the Popes and several decrees of the Inquisition with regard to the slave trade. The Portuguese crushed the Jesuit missions in South America because the Jesuits were standing in the way of the brutal exploitation of the Indians. The Catholic Church was severely to blame in allowing this to happen and allowing the Portuguese to control the Church within their territories and claim to be good Catholics while behaving in ways contrary to Christian morality. And yes, I know that at times the Popes went beyond just tolerating the Portuguese monarchs’ behavior and actually endorsed it.

By the “darkest ages” are you referring to the period of the Iberian Inquisitions from the late fifteenth century to the French Revolution? If so, I think I might agree with you, though on the whole I’m reluctant to say that one age is darker than another. But the early modern period does seem on the whole to have been a particularly nasty period in history. Perhaps that’s just because I study it!

Edwin

 

[Delta2]

I think that “secularism” means something different for you as a European than it does for Americans. Remember that Americans have a tradition of church-state separation.

I recently saw in Portugal a American’s TV Show where politicians were asked about their religion beliefs, was nice to watch

That’s something that is almost impossible to occur in Europe

Europe, perhaps due to it’s history is more secularist and humanist than Americans, not so religious

All of the non-God philosophers came from Europe - Marx, Nietzsche and so on, whereas Americans still have a free democracy with religious affairs

EUA is more reach and advanced than Europe, the second is in the darkness of apostasy ( in religion point of view ), i.e., the atheism and humanism in Europe is overwhelming

Wouldn’t you agree that Christians should act in a manner inspired by the Christian faith, whether they are intellectuals, politicians, or whatever?

Well, yes, If I were a minister I would prohibit abortion and everything that was to be against life…but doesn’t this fact clash with the free will and a secularist democracy ?

I don’t know, but I would banish abortion

I would actually argue that in your country in particular the problem was not too little secularism in the past but too much.

The predominance of Canonic Laws over civil laws was amazing, sometimes overtook the Pope by all means. The Catholic Kings of Spain ( Elizabeth and Fernando ) were outstanding in that matter

In order to understand Inquisition man must learn about Iberian Peninsula history - Portugal and Spain

The Inquisition was a arm of kings crown to achieve political targets without influence of Rome.

For example, in XVIII century the minister Marques de Pombal assigned his own brother as the master-chief of Inquisition in Portugal - Paulo de Carvalho - and Inquisition became thereafter a royal court ( under the king command and influence )

BTW, what is the right word in English for master-chief of Inquisition ? I call it Inquisidor-mor

The jews were very rich…Portugal served as refuge for a limited period of time for the Jews, but when Spain and Portugal were united in the same crown the things get worst to them

The Portuguese seem to me to have systematically disregarded the teachings of the Popes and several decrees of the Inquisition with regard to the slave trade.

…

Yes, if someone as to be blamed for Inquisition are Spain and Portugal, not the church

By the “darkest ages” are you referring to the period of the Iberian Inquisitions from the late fifteenth century to the French Revolution?

Yes, that period