Seder meals????

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JimR-OCDS said:
Sorry, that’s not the answer.

I understood you to say that the Passover Meal celerbated at the time of Christ is not the same celebrated by Jews today.

Instead, you’re talking about the intent of Jesus, celebrating the Passover, which of course is different than Jews then as it is today.

So, when we celebrate the Seder from Jewish text, we are in fact celebrating the Passover Meal that Jews during the time of Christ and Jews today still celebrate.

However, our intent is different than that of the Jews, for they celebrate it out of mandate to the convenant which we are not bound to, for Christ instituted a new Covenant in his death and resurection.

So, Catholics celebrating the Seder for the purpose of linking us closer to the Passover Meal Jesus celebrated when he instituted the Eucharist, is closer than that of which the Jews today celebrate, because our intent is for closer union with Jesus Christ.

To me, this is the only reason why I’ve participated in Seder’s, to be closer to Jesus Christ, not to Jewish culture.

Jim
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Jim,

Maybe you are right. I don’t know enough about the celebrated Passover/Seder Meal of our Lord’s time nor how Jews do it today to refute you. It seems logical to me that there would certainly be differences since OT Judaism graduated into Catholicism. Rabbinical Judaism is simply a new sect that is in competition with Christians. Thus the reason I don’t support those that look to pull souls from the Body of Christ.

Can you answer the other questions I have?

Why do you feel it is necessary to add to the Church’s liturgy? The Seder is a Jewish liturgical ritual, correct?

Are you saying that the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is not “close” enough for you and you thus need to go back to the old way of doing things?

Where do you see the Church ever celebrating a Seder Meal outside the Eucharistic Celebration, pre-modernity?

Pax Christi.
 
shocktrooper;
Why do you feel it is necessary to add to the Church’s liturgy? The Seder is a Jewish liturgical ritual, correct?
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It’s not necessary and some where here in CAF there was a thread where a Pope stated to a group of Byzantines seeking union with Rome, that they would have to remove the Seder from their liturgical mandates along with Jewish dietary regulations.

Catholics who celebrate the Seder today in their parishes, do so more for educational purposes than anything else.
Are you saying that the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is not “close” enough for you and you thus need to go back to the old way of doing things?
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Never even suggested such a thing.
Where do you see the Church ever celebrating a Seder Meal outside the Eucharistic Celebration, pre-modernity?
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The Church will never make the Seder Meal a celebration. The Passover ritual is of the Old Covenant God had with the Jews. We are the people of the New Covenant, in Jesus Christ Death and Resurrection.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The Church will never make the Seder Meal a celebration. The Passover ritual is of the Old Covenant God had with the Jews. We are the people of the New Covenant, in Jesus Christ Death and Resurrection.

Jim
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Jim, thank you for conversing with me. I see your point. I just feel like this is another way for faulty teachings to enter into the hearts and minds of those in the Church. It may seem innocent today, but tomorrow… ???.

God bless.
 
shocktrooper said:
Jim, thank you for conversing with me. I see your point. I just feel like this is another way for faulty teachings to enter into the hearts and minds of those in the Church. It may seem innocent today, but tomorrow… ???.

God bless.
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Well, why not just leave things like this up to the Bishops, who have the authority on such things?

Often in our zeal to defend the Church, we cause more problems than help.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well, why not just leave things like this up to the Bishops, who have the authority on such things?

Often in our zeal to defend the Church, we cause more problems than help.

Jim
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Yes, and sometimes in our “openness” we fail to defend the Church, thus causing more problems than help. 👍 I shall leave it to the Bishops.

Pax
 
I really don’t understand why some people dig so deep here in this forum. This was supposed to be a simple question and not a huge theological debate. Geeze Louise. A simple Seder Meal for education, enjoyment and fellowship is a good thing. I don’t know why the thought of slaughtering lambs and goats ever came up! Anything that can get parishioners together for a good time and educational at the same time is GOOD! We’re not talking about converting to our Jewish roots here you know. Simply learning more about the life and times of Jesus is what a Catholic Seder Meal is all about. Scrupulosity is sometimes rampant and that’s NOT a good thing. Not the Spanish Inquisition is it??
 
typewriterman said:
I really don’t understand why some people dig so deep here in this forum. This was supposed to be a simple question and not a huge theological debate. Geeze Louise. A simple Seder Meal for education, enjoyment and fellowship is a good thing. I don’t know why the thought of slaughtering lambs and goats ever came up! Anything that can get parishioners together for a good time and educational at the same time is GOOD! We’re not talking about converting to our Jewish roots here you know. Simply learning more about the life and times of Jesus is what a Catholic Seder Meal is all about. Scrupulosity is sometimes rampant and that’s NOT a good thing. Not the Spanish Inquisition is it??
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Sorry friend but you’re way off. These Seder meals are extremely dangerous to us as Catholics because they strictly violate God’s first commandment. Any Catholic that participates knowingly is in grave danger. This may not BE the Spanish Inquisition but the underlying and underhanded factor of trying to tear down the true faith has the same motives behind it.
 
Sheadad said:
Sorry friend but you’re way off. These Seder meals are extremely dangerous to us as Catholics because they strictly violate God’s first commandment. Any Catholic that participates knowingly is in grave danger. This may not BE the Spanish Inquisition but the underlying and underhanded factor of trying to tear down the true faith has the same motives behind it.
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Please provide the source for your accusation that participating in a Seder meal at a Catholic Parish is extremely dangerous.

Jim
 
We pray to the same God as the Jews, so I don’t see how participation in a Seder meal violates the First Commandment. Many priests approve seder meal to happen in the parish hall; they’ve been held at churches I’ve been at before. The only thing that would be wrong is if we were still talking about waiting for our messiah to come, which does not take place at a Catholic Seder meal. Instead, we remember Jesus and his last supper.
 
Shin said:
The Christian Seder Meal: A Violation of the 1st Commandment

Sermon on the subject. Addresses specifically a “Christian” Seder Meal.
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Please listen to the sermon on the Seder in the above link. Shin posted this as a gift for those that don’t understand. EWTN though trying to accommodate those that instuted this ritual, were obviously trying to justify this practice. Anyone who participates in this will most certainly put themselves in direct conflict with His will.

Blessings.
 
Sheadad said:
Sorry friend but you’re way off. These Seder meals are extremely dangerous to us as Catholics because they strictly violate God’s first commandment. Any Catholic that participates knowingly is in grave danger. This may not BE the Spanish Inquisition but the underlying and underhanded factor of trying to tear down the true faith has the same motives behind it.
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:shrug:If one searches the internet one will find hundreds of Catholic Parishes that offer a Seder for their parishioners. Are they all wrong? The only negative site I found was a blog at this address" thecatholicfaithful.blogspot.com/2011/03/christian-seder-meal-violation-of-1st.html that seems to use the same language Sheadad uses. This person uses the example of a Bishop in Tulsa who cancelled a Seder because supposedly a Rabbi complained that Catholics were using a Jewish Holy Tradition as a teaching tool. However, other Rabbis in Tulsa didn’t have that concern. As far as I could tell, this particular comment was simply an oppinion by a lay person.
 
The Catholic Seder meals ususally involve reading New Testement readings as well as old, so Jesus is being acknowledged as the Messiah. This would hardly be a First Commandment violation imo 🤷 Even after listening to the audio clip, I just can’t agree with the speaker.
 
Sheadad said:
Please listen to the sermon on the Seder in the above link. Shin posted this as a gift for those that don’t understand. EWTN though trying to accommodate those that instuted this ritual, were obviously trying to justify this practice. Anyone who participates in this will most certainly put themselves in direct conflict with His will.

Blessings.
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Blog sites and your opinion don’t equal official Catholic teaching on the subject.

Everyone needs to listen to their Bishop. If your Bishop allows parishes to have a Seder Meal, then there is nothing wrong in taking part in it.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Blog sites and your opinion don’t equal official Catholic teaching on the subject.

Everyone needs to listen to their Bishop. If your Bishop allows parishes to have a Seder Meal, then there is nothing wrong in taking part in it.

Jim
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I agree wholeheartedly Jim! If our Bishops/local Priest say “go ahead and do it”, then we as parishioners should trust that it’s okay. I had a priest hold one after Holy Thursday once, and it was not only a wonderful learning experience, but it was a creative way to have a church supper.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Blog sites and your opinion don’t equal official Catholic teaching on the subject.

Everyone needs to listen to their Bishop. If your Bishop allows parishes to have a Seder Meal, then there is nothing wrong in taking part in it.

Jim
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Jim , I typed my response quickly and didn’t mean to come across as judgmental. In retrospect, I should have been more considerate. I’m sure though in the future I’ll be asked about this kind of supper, do you have a reference to post from the CCC?
 
Sheadad said:
Jim , I typed my response quickly and didn’t mean to come across as judgmental. In retrospect, I should have been more considerate. I’m sure though in the future I’ll be asked about this kind of supper, do you have a reference to post from the CCC?
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The CCC specifies the Bishop as the pastoral authority in your dioceses. If your Bishop allows Seder meals to be done in parishes, for the sake of education, they don’t condemn those who participate in them.

Jim
 
Why does everyone assume that the Last Supper was the Jewish Passover meal? Certainly that is the position of the synoptic Gospels portray it that way, but John explicitly states the Passover was on Good Friday evening, not Holy Thursday. Benedict XVI addresses this in depth in his second Jesus of Nazareth book.
 
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