Sedevacanist friend - a conspiracy theorist, too

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Mamamull

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A longtime friend of my husband’s has decided to become a sedevacanist – there is a SSPX congregation in our city.

The friend has challenged my husband to a debate of sorts. We had sent him the excellent article from Pete Vere that was in Envoy magazine a few years back. Pete is now a canon lawyer and a revert from the SSPX society.

We have also told him of the Latin Masses in our area where they pull all the stops - so to speak - Gospel chanted, communion rail and all that wonderful reverence. He calls it all Novus Ordo and heresy.

We did the “don’t leave Peter because of Judas”, line, too.

He has challenged that free masons had control of VII and that Pope Paul VI was in collusion with them, etc.

He has all kind of junk that he says proves we are not the true church. Ave Maria!

I presume there is little we can say or do that would change him. I told my husband to ask if the friend’s intent is just to convert my husband to that schism?

I also told him to challenge the friend to pray the Rosary in Latin – if heis praying that in the vernacular, shouldn’t he be defending praying it in the language of the Universal Church as well?

Any suggestions would be welcome. My husband is a good Catholic man and loyal to the hilt to Papa Ben. So he doesn’t want to argue even though he truly understands our faith enough to debunk the junk. He thinks it is a waste of time and that we should just shun the friend.
 
Good Luck with this.

To my knowledge the SSPX are not sedevacanist. My guess is if your friend is really sedevacanist he will soon find the SSPX not up to his standards and will split form them too.

Ask him to explain the difference functional between himself and a protestant.
 
Thanks to both of you. I did just read the article from This Rock. It is most pertinent. I also sent a link of it to the friend.

I am sorry that I didn’t understand the difference between SSPX and sedevacanist. Heck, a few years ago I didn’t even know what Catholic apologetics was and now I am offering a summer camp ( a day camp thing) for 7-10 years based on the Friendly Defenders card sets. 👍

Thank you, again for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I appreciate your time.
 
Mamamull said:
Thanks to both of you. I did just read the article from This Rock. It is most pertinent. I also sent a link of it to the friend.

I am sorry that I didn’t understand the difference between SSPX and sedevacanist. Heck, a few years ago I didn’t even know what Catholic apologetics was and now I am offering a summer camp ( a day camp thing) for 7-10 years based on the Friendly Defenders card sets. 👍

Thank you, again for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I appreciate your time.
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I think you are talking about the SSPV, not the SSPX. SSPV are sedevacantist; SSPX are not and they say so clearly: sspx.org/

I hope that helps.
 
Beware, the conspiracy theories rarely end with regard to the popes but extend to politics as well.
 
I’ve read this book, and it addresses many of the SSPX errors very well. In fact, the former head of the Ecclesia Dei commission (the curial group that overseas the TLM) called for the revival and updating of this book to include current progress on this issue. Emmaus Road, the publisher, is a subsidiary of CUF and responded to the Cardinal’s call to republish. It’s only been out a few months.

The Pope, the Council, and the Mass

try giving that to your friend.
 
Windmill said:
I’ve read this book, and it addresses many of the SSPX errors very well. In fact, the former head of the Ecclesia Dei commission (the curial group that overseas the TLM) called for the revival and updating of this book to include current progress on this issue. Emmaus Road, the publisher, is a subsidiary of CUF and responded to the Cardinal’s call to republish. It’s only been out a few months.

The Pope, the Council, and the Mass

try giving that to your friend.
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That’s an excellent book!
 
I was reading some works by St. Thomas Aquinas recently and he said, citing a passage from Job, that paranoia and conspiracy theories are a sign of a wicked conscience.

Job 15:20 The wicked man is proud all his days, and the number of the years of his tyranny is uncertain. 21 The sound of dread is always in his ears: and when there is peace, he always suspecteth treason.
 
Please let me help you understand…
Sedevacanists ARE NOT necessarily affiliated with Pius X churches. In fact, there is an independent order that left the SSPX because of Lefebre’s attempt to inculcate John XXIII’s missal into their masses. Nine refused and left. Now they are independent and are at various churches around the country. Did you know that JXXIII was an independent Mason? Did you know that Paul VI was a Jew? (Check out Montini family in Italy. All Jews). Did you know that JPII allowed the Dalai Lama to place a statue of Buddha on top of the tabernacle in Fatima? Did you know he kissed the Koran in public? Did you know that he had a life long friend who was Jewish and the Jewish friend told reporters that never once did JPII encourage him to become a Catholic. He said that JP encouraged him to “be a good jew”.
Did you know that Papa Ben as you most distastefully called him, just decided to tell all catholics in the world that there is no more limbo and that all unbaptized babies go to heaven? Why get baptized then??? Did you know that Ben has uttered many heresies BEFORE he was elected Pope and is still spewing them? Utbube has an excellent series produced by a Benedictine Monk called “The Amazing Heresies of Pope Benedict”. If…after seeing page after page proof of heresies written by Ben himself, you do not question who is in Rome, I feel sorry for you. Also check out “The Amazing Heresies of Paul VI” and “Why John Paul Cannot be Pope.” on Utube. Everything is based on the writings of St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Franicis De Sales. Now I am believing canonized saints instead of your beloved Ben.
As a sedevacanist, I have not left the true church…I have left the anti church. At the end, we will all see who followed the right path. God be with you.
 
They’re coming to take me away, haha! They’re coming to take me away, hoho!
 
Mamamull said:
A longtime friend of my husband’s has decided to become a sedevacanist – there is a SSPX congregation in our city.

The friend has challenged my husband to a debate of sorts. We had sent him the excellent article from Pete Vere that was in Envoy magazine a few years back. Pete is now a canon lawyer and a revert from the SSPX society.

We have also told him of the Latin Masses in our area where they pull all the stops - so to speak - Gospel chanted, communion rail and all that wonderful reverence. He calls it all Novus Ordo and heresy.

We did the “don’t leave Peter because of Judas”, line, too.

He has challenged that free masons had control of VII and that Pope Paul VI was in collusion with them, etc.

He has all kind of junk that he says proves we are not the true church. Ave Maria!

I presume there is little we can say or do that would change him. I told my husband to ask if the friend’s intent is just to convert my husband to that schism?

I also told him to challenge the friend to pray the Rosary in Latin – if heis praying that in the vernacular, shouldn’t he be defending praying it in the language of the Universal Church as well?

Any suggestions would be welcome. My husband is a good Catholic man and loyal to the hilt to Papa Ben. So he doesn’t want to argue even though he truly understands our faith enough to debunk the junk. He thinks it is a waste of time and that we should just shun the friend.
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I can only think of one suggestion that has the best chance of working:

Pray for him 👍
 
tinalat said:
Please let me help you understand…
Sedevacanists ARE NOT necessarily affiliated with Pius X churches. In fact, there is an independent order that left the SSPX because of Lefebre’s attempt to inculcate John XXIII’s missal into their masses. Nine refused and left. Now they are independent and are at various churches around the country. Did you know that JXXIII was an independent Mason? Did you know that Paul VI was a Jew? (Check out Montini family in Italy. All Jews). Did you know that JPII allowed the Dalai Lama to place a statue of Buddha on top of the tabernacle in Fatima? Did you know he kissed the Koran in public? Did you know that he had a life long friend who was Jewish and the Jewish friend told reporters that never once did JPII encourage him to become a Catholic. He said that JP encouraged him to “be a good jew”.
Did you know that Papa Ben as you most distastefully called him, just decided to tell all catholics in the world that there is no more limbo and that all unbaptized babies go to heaven? Why get baptized then??? Did you know that Ben has uttered many heresies BEFORE he was elected Pope and is still spewing them? Utbube has an excellent series produced by a Benedictine Monk called “The Amazing Heresies of Pope Benedict”. If…after seeing page after page proof of heresies written by Ben himself, you do not question who is in Rome, I feel sorry for you. Also check out “The Amazing Heresies of Paul VI” and “Why John Paul Cannot be Pope.” on Utube. Everything is based on the writings of St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Franicis De Sales. Now I am believing canonized saints instead of your beloved Ben.
As a sedevacanist, I have not left the true church…I have left the anti church. At the end, we will all see who followed the right path. God be with you.
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Oh, my God.:doh2: My dear brother, I will stop and pray for you now that your eyes may be opened and you allow the Holy Spirit to work in your heart.

To the OP: Please show your husband the post above. This is the nonsense he may have to deal with. The way to help them understand is to let them present one argument, one fallacy, one lie at a time and refute that, however know going in that most will not approach dialogue with an open mind. Like many in cults, they are so weak in their “belief” that they cannot entertain the thought they may be wrong. And if it gets too tough and frustrating, remember that you and your husband are doing a spiritual work of mercy.
 
SSPX chapels do not accomodate or encourage sedevacantist beliefs. However, occasionally a sedevacantist may attend Mass at a SSPX chapel and not say anything so as to avoid scrutiny or because there is no sede church in the area. This should not be taken as an endorsement for the sede view by the SSPX but rather a lack of knowledge on the part of the Priest that a member holds such views.

I don’t like when the SSPX gets lumped with the sedes, especially when they explicitly and publicly denounce that particular position.
 
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