Sedevacantism? Did St. John Bosco Give us a Clue?

[Conservative]

Years ago, when first learning about the changes, in the Church/Mass, etc., I was involved (and very fearful about) the discussions of sedevacantism. I know that history tells of false popes. But some declared themselves popes and sometimes there were two at once - so, since there could only be one, I won’t go into it. Whether it was obvious or not, there might have been caused some of the same conscience problems to the masses at large of the time.

I’m also very afraid of the sedevacantist theory but see the discussion very alive in another post. (Matter of fact, I just heard a friend sort of refer to it last night.) I am not afraid of the truth - and search for it with God’s help. But haven’t we been told that, since we’re not theologians, it’s for Church history to declare someone an anti- or non-pope? It’s not our call?

My thought is: St. John Bosco had seen in a vision the attempted assassination of a pope. It’s been thought that this was a vision of the attempt on Pope John Paul II’s life. So, is that not an indication that he is Pope? This all may sound very elementary. But would St. John Bosco refer to a Pope coming close to assassination - about someone who ***wasnt’ really ***the Pope?

 

[jj2011]

It cannot happen that the entire church will be in error about who the pope is; therefore the Vatican II popes are valid popes.

Sedevacantism implies that the apostolic succession has stopped. This is dogmatically unsound.

Under sedevacantism we would have no more than a few validly consecrated bishops with supplied jurisdiction like the Thuc line; but these are no hierarchy; every single episcopal see, including the apostolic Roman See, would still be vacant.

Absurd.

 

[Fred_4]

Hard to say. I’m not familiar with St. John Bosco’s vision. Did his vision involve a handgun, a Polish pope, St. Peter’s square, and a pope-mobile? If not, it’s hard to know exactly what the vision was about. It might be a vision of a future yet to come.

One thing that comes to mind: in history when there was more than one claimant to the papacy… each claimant had a heck of a lot more support than any sedevantists today. It’s hard to imagine God allowing 99.874% of Bishops to follow the wrong pope and only 3 or 4 to have it right. Just a thought.

 

[Caesar]

But would St. John Bosco refer to a Pope coming close to assassination - about someone who ***wasnt’ really ***the Pope?

Perhaps. It is certainly possible, but on a practical level why would God give St. John Bosco a vision of the attempted assasination of an anti-pope and have the Saint believe the man was the real pope?

Although, that the pope in the vision was John Paul II is necessarily true. It could be another pope- there were attempted assasinations of Pius XII and Paul VI. There are theories that Pius XI, John XXIII and John Paul I were all assasinated.

 

[Conservative]

It cannot happen that the entire church will be in error about who the pope is; therefore the Vatican II popes are valid popes.

Sedevacantism implies that the apostolic succession has stopped. This is dogmatically unsound.

Under sedevacantism we would have no more than a few validly consecrated bishops with supplied jurisdiction like the Thuc line; but these are no hierarchy; every single episcopal see, including the apostolic Roman See, would still be vacant.

Absurd.

The sedevacantist theory has circulated significantly since the radical changes resulting after Vatican II. I say “theory” - I am no theologian.

Ironically, you use the word “jurisdiction” - a word which came up in discussion with an old friend of mine last night. That’s another word/theory I used to diligently research in Canon Law books. And you give the ultimately urgent reason why sedevacantism theories are frightening…If untrue, they’re horrible falsehoods. But, if God were to allow man to make this mistake - (I use the word “allow” for lack of the right choice of words) - that’s precisely the issue. We would lose our Shepherds, our Bishops, our priests - and then who would consecrate the host? It is an ominous thought.

God help us -