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jim28
Guest
You are assuming that we presume ambiguity on an orthodox statement, when actually we presume heresy where there is heresy whether ambiguous or not.
Keep lying to your self
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Keep lying to your self
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catharina
Guest
This might be some progress. You admit to presumption.
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jim28
Guest
If a quote is saying something contrary to dogma, we presume it to be heresy.
If a person is uttering heresy, and they have not abjured it, we presume them to be a heretic.
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catharina
Guest
I am absolutely unwillling to go any further in discussing your presumption.
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louey
Guest
What PRESUMPTION? Are you afraid of the truth? Are you afraid to see JPII as the heretic, apostate he truly is?
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catharina
Guest
If I might, I suggest that both louey and jim28 reference the word/term presumption as it is formally used in the Catholic Church. Check the Catechisms (Baltimore and other) and the Code of Canon Law. I won’t be mentioning it again.
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louey
Guest
Do you deny that JPII kissed the Koran? Do you deny that he has stated over, and over he respects false religions? Do you deny that he signed and repeatedly stated he was committed to the reforms of the VII council? Do you deny that he prayed with 200 or so false religions at Assissii? Do you deny he calls apostate Jews our “elder brother’s”? This is to name just a few of his heretical, and blasphemous actions and words.
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catharina
Guest
Again, Post # 26
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louey
Guest
How blind you truly are Catharina. Sad for you, sad indeed, as you can not see the truth, even when it is staring you in the face.
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mgrfin
Guest
Well, I hope we don’t have to go through this, but…
You find their arguments convincing? They rouse up St. Robert Bellarmine from the dead and confuse his teaching saying that he didn’t think it was probable that a pope could be a heretic.
That in itself should mean that he didn’t believe a pope could be a heretic.
Then they go to Mystici Corporis which says that heretics are outside of the church, and by saying that, then the Pope could not be in office. They say that heresy is an automatic excommunication, confusing the law of penalties and crimes.
The pope can’t be a heretic. He is infallible. And he cannot be convicted of a crime since he is the Supremen head of the Church, and the Code of Canon Law is subservient to him, including any bishop, synod, general council, conference, commission, or congregation.
I have difficulty believing anyone would find their arguments convincing, and they have been argued against on this site for month after month.
After they sent away, they open another site under some other pretext. Kind of like this one. BTW I notice that you are a new member.
peace
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catharina
Guest
Again, Post # 26.
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mgrfin
Guest
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jim28
Guest
You said that you are absolutely unwilling to go any further but your next post shows you going further.
Do you deny that Paul VI wore the Ephod, worn by Caiaphas (jewish high priests) and freemasons, both of which are enemies of Catholicism. Or that Paul VI favored birth control. Or that he rejected proselytizing non-Catholics.
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mgrfin
Guest
I went to a funeral for a friend. He was Jewish, and I wore a jamuka. So what?
Am I Jewish, am I an atheist, or an unbeliver?
You have to think outside of the box.
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
You have to be careful with these quotes. Not every council, synod, address, encyclical, papal bull, letter, etc. is part of the teaching magisterium of the Church. Certainly there are fewer things that are infallible than we think.It’s fairly easy to find the writings that we quote. You have to be willing to look them up and not take other people’s word for it. Every source I have ever looked up in relation to Church’s Dogma, which is mostly what Sede’s quote, has been right on and very much contextual. You can’t just look up the writings with a preconceived notion that you are right or that there is no way it can be true.
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
By saying that this is what the Church has always understood…aren’t you saying that this is part of the Magisterium of the Church?
What the ‘gates of hell’ translation is means very little to Roman Catholics.
Let us continue to exercise charity, and to remember our Catholic friends who are not united to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church, and the Bishop of the Roman Church in our prayers.
peace
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
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bear06
Guest
I would suggest a careful read of this article to further this conversation. newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
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mgrfin
Guest
This is erroneous. There have been no heresies committed by the last five popes.
We have been through this over and over. To say that Jesus Christ died for all men is not heretical, but this is the level of untruth which is told? And a pope wore a yamuka, this is heresy?
The Pope is infallible in faith and morals, and it is impossible for him to be in heresy. period.
I don’t know anything about you, but this is really distasteful to Roman Catholics to be attacked like this on our own Catholic site.
In return for the insults made against us, we can only be charitable to you, and prayer for your return to the one true Church.
peace
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louey
Guest
To go to a funeral of a Jew and ware jamuka you have denied Christ, and the need to believe in Him to be saved. You are a cause of scandal. You have given, in just your presence alone, that one can be saved as a Jew. That is not including what you may have said, or rather your words. You have committed a mortal sin. It is forbidden for any Catholic to go to any non-Catholic religious service.
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