Sedevacantism

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MarkaurelE

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“Debating” a sedevacantist - probably the most challenging for me so far, because admittedly they “know” much more about certain documents than me, which is good - it forces me too learn more about our Faith.

Anyways hope you guys can help me out here - as we will be discussing I quote "Heresy on Masonic Ecumenism, Heresy on Muslims, or the Heresy on the Jews. "
 
to be more precise:

Catholic Church Teaching directly applied in 3 simple statements:

‘Why Jorge Bergoglio Departed from Catholicism Prior to his Invalid Election & Was Therefore Never the Roman Pontiff’

Ephesians 6:12 (Douay-Rheims Catholic Scripture)

“For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.”
  1. Objectively speaking: As a public and formal heretic PRIOR to his invalid ‘election,’ Jorge Bergoglio thus DEPARTED from the Catholic Faith via committing the MORTAL SIN of Communicatio in Sacris [public, formal interfaith prayer] condemned by the Divine Law [Psalms 95:5; 1 Cor. 10:20; 1 Chronicles 16:26] and by 1917 Canon [Ecclesiastical] Law, no. 1258.1, an act which would SEVER one’s membership in the Catholic Church.
    (Cf. Pope Pius XI, Encyclical, Mortalium Animos, “On Religious Unity”, January 6, 1928, nos. 2, 8, and 10; Decree of the Holy Office of Pope Pius XII, “On the Ecumenical Movement”, December 20, 1949; Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, in his Bull, “Cantate Domino,” [1441], Ex cathedra).
  2. Objectively speaking: Church Teaching considers public heretics, schismatics and apostates as NON-Catholics who do not “profess the Catholic Faith,” therefore, Bergoglio CANNOT possess an ecclesiastical office inside the Church, period.
    (Cf. Pope Pius IX, Encyclical, Quanto conficiamur moerore, On “Indifferentism,” to the bishops of Italy, Aug. 10, 1863; Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Satis Cognitum, “On the Unity of the Church”, June 29, 1896, nos. 9, 15; Pope Pius XII, Encyclical, Mystici Corporis Christi, “On the Mystical Body of Christ”, June 29, 1943, no. 23).
  3. Objectively speaking: As a non-Catholic and a public heretic PRIOR to his invalid election, Bergoglio already brought “anathema” on HIMSELF, as he NEVER validly occupied the Chair of Peter for a single moment and CANNOT be regarded as the lawful head of the Catholic Church; thus, Catholics MAY lawfully refuse obedience to one who has obstinately and manifestly DEFECTED from the Catholic Faith.
    (Pope Vigilius, presiding over the Second Council of Constantinople [553 A.D.], “Sentence against the ‘Three Chapters’ "; translation taken from Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol.1., ed. Norman P. Tanner; Pope Paul IV, in his Bull, Against Heretics. “Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio,” February 15, 1559. Translated from the Authentic Roman Edition, 1559, with an Introduction and Notes, by Robert C. Jenkins; also found in the Magnum Roman Bullarium, ps. 829-831; translated from the original Latin into Spanish by Dr. Carlos Disandro; Pope St. Pius V, in his Bull, Inter Multiplices, “Pleading for Unity of Spirit,” confirming the Bull “Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio” of Pope Paul IV, Dec. 21, 1566, no. 3; referenced in A History of the Inquisition of Spain, Vol. 2., by Henry Charles Lea, p. 137; translated from the original Latin into Spanish by Dr. Carlos Disandro; Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Profession of Faith, Letter to the Archbishop of Tarragona [Dec. 18, 1208]. Warren H. Carroll, A History of Christendom, Vol. 3 [The Glory of Christendom], ps. 432-434; Denzinger: Sources of Catholic Dogma, no. 423; Pope St. Celestine I, presiding over the Council of Ephesus [431]; Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 74)
Other examples of mortal sin are given, but in summary:
Pope Francis commited mortal sin prior to election, his election is thus invalid.
 
Its really easy to answer sedevacantists’ arguments. I’ve done it for years. Even if a heretic cannot be a Pope, he would have to be known by EVERYONE as a heretic. How do we know that their favorite guy Pius X was Pope? Maybe he said some heresy which in this century we don’t know about. This amounts to the destruction of the papacy. Most people don’t look into the Popes pre-papal statements and they shouldn’t have to. I’ve looked at pretty much ALL the quotes from the post Pius XII, and pre Pope Francis, Popes that are alleged to be heretical. I found not a single heretical statement. You can twist statements anyway you want. Aquinas said truth resides primarily in the intellect. Was he a relativist? If John Paul II said that instead of Aquinas, they would called him a heretic, but the sedes are ok is Aquinas says it. I haven’t looked at the pre-papal statements that are allegedly heretical by Pope Francis, but I don’t have to. Most Catholics don’t know about these issues. So he is Pope
 
MarkaurelE said:
“Debating” a sedevacantist - probably the most challenging for me so far, because admittedly they “know” much more about certain documents than me, which is good - it forces me too learn more about our Faith.

Anyways hope you guys can help me out here - as we will be discussing I quote "Heresy on Masonic Ecumenism, Heresy on Muslims, or the Heresy on the Jews. "
Click to expand...
Here is a link to 10 resources that are useful in dialoging with sedevacantists:

SSPX and Sedevacantism
historyandapologetics.com/p/church-history-and-sspx.html

I especially recommend the arguments listed in this link:

List of Arguments Against Sedevacantism
historyandapologetics.com/2015/02/list-of-arguments-against-sedevacantism.html

Let me know if that is helpful. God bless!
 
MarkaurelE said:
Other examples of mortal sin are given, but in summary:
Pope Francis commited mortal sin prior to election, his election is thus invalid.
Click to expand...
To be quite frank: I absolutely shudder when I see individuals usurping authority that doesn’t belong to them, and thereby judging the Holy Father, who can be judged by no man. Mustering as much charity as grace will permit, I cannot help but find the whole impulse to be demonically inspired.
 
Why, debate them. They are making stuff up as the go along. Lets debate why grass is blue.
 
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