Seeking a balanced description of Mormoninsm

[rpp]

I am looking for a description of Mormon doctrine? Preferably, this description would be in contrast to Catholic doctrine, and be a relatively high level summary, rather than a series of detailed treatises.

For example, I think that the LDS does not believe in the Trinity. Is that correct? What about the Divinity of Christ? baptism, communion of saints, etc.? And where does the obsession of genealogies come from?

I understand that the CDF under then Cardinal Ratzinger stated that Mormonism is not a Christian sect, but something else. What was the basis for that?

Please remember charity when posting.

Thank you all.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I am looking for a description of Mormon doctrine? Preferably, this description would be in contrast to Catholic doctrine, and be a relatively high level summary, rather than a series of detailed treatises.

For example, I think that the LDS does not believe in the Trinity. Is that correct? What about the Divinity of Christ? baptism, communion of saints, etc.? And where does the obsession of genealogies come from?

I understand that the CDF under then Cardinal Ratzinger stated that Mormonism is not a Christian sect, but something else. What was the basis for that?

Please remember charity when posting.

Thank you all.

rpp, this is the best document I’ve read:

Is Mormonism Christian?

 

[BartBurk]

I am looking for a description of Mormon doctrine? Preferably, this description would be in contrast to Catholic doctrine, and be a relatively high level summary, rather than a series of detailed treatises.

For example, I think that the LDS does not believe in the Trinity. Is that correct? What about the Divinity of Christ? baptism, communion of saints, etc.? And where does the obsession of genealogies come from?

I understand that the CDF under then Cardinal Ratzinger stated that Mormonism is not a Christian sect, but something else. What was the basis for that?

Please remember charity when posting.

Thank you all.

This is from the Mormon’s own web site:

lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-1,00.html

 

[rpp]

No clue, but it’s sure making my job of being both Mormon and Catholic at the same time easier. If Mormonism isn’t a Christian sect according to Catholicism, then there is no sin in me still embracing what is just a culture.

I do not think you can embrace two religions at once. You must renounce Mormonism, and all other religions, in order to become Catholic.

 

[rpp]

Everything in Mormonism, or just the parts that contradict Catholicism? I would hate to have to renounce Christ, charity, and good works to become Catholic.

To be Catholic you must renounce the everything in Mormon Church, it teachings and all it proposes and embrace what the Catholic Church teaches.

You must also cease attending Mormon (or any other non-Catholic) religious services.

Of course you would not renounce Christ or any other Christian act because you enter the Catholic Church and embrace what the Catholic Church teaches.

But you know this already. Why ask such a question?

 

[psyche23]

If you consider youself Catholic, then you believe ALL that the Catholic Church has stated as truth. That being the case, if Mormons agreed with everything the Catholic Church has said, then they would in essence be Catholic (hopefully going through all the sacraments if they truly believed). Obviously Mormons don’t agree with everything the Catholic Church believes, and is thereby not Catholic. So you can not be two things at once. I reccommend intense studying of both religions-AND ways of life before calling yourself one or the other. That way people aren’t confused if you contradict either or both religion’s teachings. Good luck with your search for the truth however God decides to lead you.

 

[psyche23]

Also, you would not have to renounce good works, christ ect. to become Catholic. In essence that is what the Catholic Church calls each of us to be! Good people of good faith doing good works all in the name of Christ. You would have to be a pretty poor Catholic to believe in Christ, but not follow his teachings…

 

[PaulDupre]

Tsuzuki,

Why “Lucifer in tenebris lucet”? If my high school Latin still serves, that means “Lucifer shines in the darkness”. That is an odd thing for an aspiring Catholic (or a Mormon) to use in his signature.

Just curious,
Paul

 

[rpp]

Wasn’t that rule changed? I know some Catholic priests who have attended other religious services (weddings, funerals, etc.).

And what constitutes a religious service? I can certainly see how a Protestant service would apply, but Mormons aren’t protestant.

It would seem to me that from a Catholic perspective, Mormonism is more of a social thing, anyway.

No, that “rule” was never changed. Catholic cannot attend the worship service of another religion or non-Catholic Christian denomination not in communion with the Holy See. Just because you are aware of priests who violate this does not make it correct.

I have no idea where you get the idea that the Catholic Church thinks Mormonism is a “social thing”. That is most certainly incorrect.

And can we PLEEEEEASE get back to the topic of this thread.

 

[psyche23]

Actually, we’re not forbidden to attend a non-Catholic service as long as you do not participate in rituals or practices that are against church teaching. So you could go to say, an Episcipal church, but not participate in their so called “communion” because it is not truly the body and blood of Christ. You can also go to a protestant wedding or funeral, but it would be unwise to be in the wedding or funeral party (ex. bridesmaid…). You could NOT however go to a homosexual wedding because it isn’t a valid marriage in any sense of the word. Not too sure on Mormanism though because I’m not too familiar with their practices. If you do go to a service it should be as an observant only not a participant. Hope that makes sense.

Oh, and glad to hear you’re going through RCIA!!! Wonderful program!

 

[rpp]

Actually, we’re not forbidden to attend a non-Catholic service as long as you do not participate in rituals or practices that are against church teaching. So you could go to say, an Episcipal church, but not participate in their so called “communion” because it is not truly the body and blood of Christ. You can also go to a protestant wedding or funeral, but it would be unwise to be in the wedding or funeral party (ex. bridesmaid…). You could NOT however go to a homosexual wedding because it isn’t a valid marriage in any sense of the word. Not too sure on Mormanism though because I’m not too familiar with their practices. If you do go to a service it should be as an observant only not a participant. Hope that makes sense.

Oh, and glad to hear you’re going through RCIA!!! Wonderful program!

Okay, I was wrong here. you are correct, See the Jimmy Akin article that explains this. Thanks for making me look it up!

 

[psyche23]

Anytime

I’m still not sure of the specifics of Mormanism though…

 

[psyche23]

From what I know, Catholics can observe Zen Buddhist, Taoist and whatever other religious rituals he or she likes, but can not be an active participant. To what extent should be up to the persons judgement because as far as I know, there are no specific rules on how to behave at such rituals except to be polite and respectful. If the person has specific questions, that would be a matter to discuss with his or her priest on whether or not to still partike in communion. It remains true however that as long as the individual is in good standing with the church and has committed no mortal sins, that he or she can still recieve the eucharist.

As for purely secular rituals I have never heard of any problems with that… I’ve been to plenty secular events like graduations and weddings and not once has my Catholic faith been called into question. And no, Catholics can not perform weddings in general. Only priests have that right and they can not marry two individuals who are not Catholic. He can marry a Catholic and non-catholic, but only with the understanding that the married couple will be in compliance with the church. For example my Aunt married a protestant (who goes to mass, but still considers himself non-catholic. They DO however raise their children Catholic).

As for being a part of a secular wedding, it’s frowned on and probably not wise, but no one will excommunicate you if you do participate in one. If the wedding is not Christian, Catholics are not to be a member of the wedding party, but may still attend if their conscience deems it prudent.

Hope that helps!!!

 

[zerinus]

I am looking for a description of Mormon doctrine? Preferably, this description would be in contrast to Catholic doctrine, and be a relatively high level summary, rather than a series of detailed treatises.

The most important thing you need to know about Mormonism is that it is a Restoration of the original church of Jesus Christ. It teaches that the early Christian church apostatized, and lost the priesthood authority that it once possessed. That priesthood authority is now restored by divine revelation and angelic ministration to the LDS Church, which makes it the only true and viable Church of Christ on earth. It is the soul possessor of the priesthood authority to legally administer the saving ordinances or sacraments of the gospel. Only baptisms performed by the LDS Church are valid in the sight of God. No other baptism (or any other sacrament performed by any other church) is. If you want a summary of LDS doctrine, you will find it in the Articles of Faith of the Church, which you can find on the Church’s website.

For example, I think that the LDS does not believe in the Trinity. Is that correct?

Not correct. We believe in the Trinity, but only the Trinity of the Bible—the three separate persons of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost—not the Trinity of post apostate Christendom—the three-in-one and one-in-three idea.

What about the Divinity of Christ?

Yes, we believe in the divinity of Christ.

baptism,

Yes, baptism by immersion (only), and the laying on of hand for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We use the Trinitarian formula for our baptisms.

communion of saints, etc.?

yes, we believe in the communion of saints—though the theology of it may not be identical to the Catholic one.

And where does the obsession of genealogies come from?

Vicarious baptism for the dead. See 1 Corinthians 15:29.

I understand that the CDF under then Cardinal Ratzinger stated that Mormonism is not a Christian sect, but something else. What was the basis for that?

You need to ask the Catholic Church that question—or provide a reference so that it can be researched.

zerinus

 

[psyche23]

zerinus,
Thank you for the explanation of your faith. It helps to know the differences we have as well as the similarities. Of course you know I’ll have to disagree with you on apostolic succession (and probably others as well, but we’ll stick with this one for now). Of course you’re on a Catholic website so that should be obvious we will disagree. I would like to know why Mormans think the apostolic succession was broken in the first place and needed to be restored.

 

[stmaria]

No clue, but it’s sure making my job of **being both Mormon and Catholic at the same time easier. **If Mormonism isn’t a Christian sect according to Catholicism, then there is no sin in me still embracing what is just a culture.

Mormons believe that the Catholic Church is a false religion
From their official site lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-1,00.html

"When Jesus lived on the earth, he established his Church, the only true Church. He organized his Church so the truths of the gospel could be taught to all people and the ordinances of the gospel could be administered correctly with authority. Through this organization, Christ could bring the blessings of salvation to mankind.

After the Savior ascended into heaven, men changed the ordinances and doctrines that he and his Apostles had established. Because of apostasy, there was no direct revelation from God. The true Church was no longer on the earth.
In the spring of 1820, one of the most important events in the history of the world occurred. The time had come for the marvelous work and wonder of which the Lord had spoken. As a young boy, Joseph Smith wanted to know which of all the churches was the true Church of Christ. He went into the woods near his home and prayed humbly and intently to his Heavenly Father, asking which church he should join. On that morning a miraculous thing happened. Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith. The Savior told him not to join any church because the true Church was not on the earth."

A few more beliefs that contradict Cathlic teaching

"The Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead (see 1 John 5:7; D&C 20:28). He is a spirit that has the form and likeness of a man (see D&C 130:22). He can be in only one place at a time, but his influence can be everywhere at the same time

“Ancient prophets wore tunics and carried staffs. Modern prophets wear suits and carry briefcases.”

“Jesus established his Church when he was on the earth. It was called the Church of Jesus Christ (see 3 Nephi 27:8), and the members were called Saints. Through the persecution and martyrdom of Church leaders and the general wickedness of the people, the Church of Jesus Christ was taken from the earth.”

“Today the Church of Jesus Christ has been restored and is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All of the offices and functions of the Church in the days of Jesus are present in the Church today.”

" To help them remember, he introduced the sacrament. He broke bread into pieces and blessed it. Then he said, “Take, eat; this is in remembrance of my body which I give a ransom for you” (Joseph Smith Translation…Then the priest or elder blesses the water and it too is passed to the members. Jesus gave his disciples wine when he introduced the sacrament. However, in **a latter-day revelation **he has said that it doesn’t matter what we eat and drink during the sacrament as long as we remember him (see D&C 27:2-3). Today, Latter-day Saints **drink water **instead of wine."

 

[psyche23]

Ok, respectfully don’t agree. (I say respectfully because it’s soo hard to send the wrong message across online since inflection and tone of voice and body language are lost). Maybe you can give some specifics as to how men changed the “ordinances and doctrines that he and his Apostles had established”. I’m looking for specific instinces here. And how do you know exactly when (or even if) divine revelation left the apostles?
I argue it never left.

 

[psyche23]

Besides, why would God put his son on earth to send a message that was only to get lost for centuries? It doesn’t make sense to me? If the message was so important, why would he allow it to fade away only to get brought back by someone years down the line?

 

[psyche23]

Sorry, one last thing I forgot. So if you’re saying the trinity is 3 seperate persons, wouldn’t that make for multiple Gods? We are supposed to worship One God and One God alone. The only way to do this is if the three are actually One. For example, I am a daughter, sister, and friend all in one. Take any of those away from me and I am not the same person, but they are all aspects of what makes me me. Or you could say, I have a Body, a Soul and a Mind. Without any of those three things, I would be very much diminished.

 

[Chris-WA]

Sorry, one last thing I forgot. So if you’re saying the trinity is 3 seperate persons, wouldn’t that make for multiple Gods? We are supposed to worship One God and One God alone. The only way to do this is if the three are actually One. For example, I am a daughter, sister, and friend all in one. Take any of those away from me and I am not the same person, but they are all aspects of what makes me me. Or you could say, I have a Body, a Soul and a Mind. Without any of those three things, I would be very much diminished.

In order to explain this, Mormons would say that they do not worship Christ or the Holy Spirit. They only worship God the Father, even though they consider Christ and the Holy Spirit to be members of the godhead. Worship is for God the Father alone, not for Christ or the Holy Spirit. This is unbiblical, but it is their position. We as Catholics, however, would say that we worship all three because they are all the same God.