Seeking Guidance from Parents of Large Families who Abstain from Sex

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The OP’s concerns and quotes are misused many times for either defense of the term or concern for it being real.

But thanks for the advice.
 
ffg said:
The OP’s concerns and quotes are misused many times for either defense of the term or concern for it being real.

But thanks for the advice.
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It can be real. But discussing that here would devolve the thread off topic. Because a guy with a large family for whom nfp is not working is the topic, not the misuse of nfp.
There are other threads to debate your issues.
 
NICKUSAF said:
I wish I knew. My wife wishes she knew. Our coach wishes she knew too.

Bottom line, we were using safe days. Heck, we were only intimate 1, maybe 2 days in a good month… we were scared to death of getting pregnant again. Here we are… gifted by God for the sixth time trying to use NFP to control our own lives.

I get it, we all need to be like Mary and just say His will be done.

The Church also realizes families need a method to help regulate within the bounds of responsible parenthood. I think one thing most Catholics tend to overlook when throwing around NFP as an acceptable form of birth control is that even Humanae Vitae states, NFP is only to be used when a couple “for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.” Of course, this is a subjective phrase leaving it up to individuals to decide what is serious and what is not.

So, here we are. NFP doesn’t work and St Paul says abstinence should only be for a season to help prevent sin, and focus prayer. Whats that leave? It is easy to say abstinence is the answer (thats what we came up with) but, as with everything revealed through scripture, there are multiple layers… am I missing something in Corinthians?

I look at my kids and appreciate each one for the gift they are. I can’t imagine having stopped at four, and not be able to enjoy my little one, or the next. BUT, it isn’t about being able to handle more or afford more. Each pregnancy has gotten progressively harder for my wife, both mentally and physically. I cannot put her through any more. It isn’t fair, and it isn’t safe. Are these feelings, developed after lots and lots of prayer to be considered “serious” enough?

Again, I am hoping someone who has been a spouse in a happy, healthy abstinence from sex marriage AND is the parent of multiple kids can chime in and tell me what it was like. What challenges they had. What can they suggest. How they failed…did it last. Marriage is hard as it is, the unitive aspect of intimacy is a foundational part of our make-up… a true gift from our creator.
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ffg said:
The OP’s concerns and quotes are misused many times for either defense of the term or concern for it being real.

But thanks for the advice.
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Would you care to elaborate? How are my quotes misused? I am truly interested in your opinion
 
NICKUSAF said:
Works for what? Just to prevent life? What about the other aspects of existing life? Enriching love, family affection, avoidance of sin, setting a healthy example of happy, united, loving parents for children to follow… we cannot ignore St. Paul letter to the Corinthians. He was very clear about married life and coming together to avoid the temptations Satan puts in front of us. Should be discount his wise words?

Now, my entire post is ABOUT abstinence… my question (I am the OP) is not about NFP. It is about abstinence. Please focus on my question.
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Abstinence until the completely safe days of the month…Otherwise, use birth control & try to get a priest who gives you the O.K.
 
NICKUSAF said:
What I am interested in is a discussion with other people in a similar situation. How have you overcome the challenges of permanent abstinence in your marriage? Do you feel you are still raising children in a loving household complete with the proper example of intimacy expected from parents? Do you think your children are affected, or have their opinions on what a marriage truly is supposed to be like been affected by having parents who are no longer physically intimate? How has this affected your relationship with your spouse? After 20+ years of abstaining, were you/do you think you can/do engage in intimate relationships again, or has your entire relationship changed so much that even when capable after menopause, physical intimacy is just no longer an option? Do you think permanent abstinence is healthy?
!
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It has been about 20 years. We have 5 children total, but only two young ones were home for the first few years; the others are older. My husband is disabled and abstinence is our only choice.

To answer your questions, I think being intimate is irrelevant to raising children, we still show affection – children are pretty self centered and just want to be sure they’re not going to lose a parent to divorce.
We are good friends still. We go out to dinner, watch movies together, play cards, attend church.
i don’t think the relationship has changed so much that if intimacy were possible, it would be a problem.

Of course permanent abstinence is healthy – religious folks live this way all the time.
I offer it up to the Lord, who has much better things in store for us eventually, I’m convinced.

One thing I noticed is that it’s easier just to abstain, than to participate very rarely – that was frustrating.
I hope you can work something else out, but if abstinence is what you must do, I’m sure your marriage can survive. Respect and affection are key.
 
NICKUSAF said:
What I am interested in is a discussion with other people in a similar situation. How have you overcome the challenges of permanent abstinence in your marriage? Do you feel you are still raising children in a loving household complete with the proper example of intimacy expected from parents? Do you think your children are affected, or have their opinions on what a marriage truly is supposed to be like been affected by having parents who are no longer physically intimate? How has this affected your relationship with your spouse? After 20+ years of abstaining, were you/do you think you can/do engage in intimate relationships again, or has your entire relationship changed so much that even when capable after menopause, physical intimacy is just no longer an option? Do you think permanent abstinence is healthy?
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I wish I had answers to your questions. In a way, though, there may not be one answer. I’m thinking specifically that many of the questions you ask boil down to “how does a marriage survive the strain of something like this?” I could imagine for an emotionally healthy couple with strong commitment to abstinence (and low libidos??), it might be taken in stride. On the other hand, a couple where one partner struggles with abstinence and another partner might be given to depressive episodes, it could push a relationship to the breaking point. Those are just two extremes I can think of; I’m not making any assumptions about you. The health of the marriage is what will be seen by children, it’s what would lead to a resumption of intimacy down the road, etc. But it depends a lot on the couple.

It’s not a dismissive answer and there’s no judgement involved. Is there anyone you can talk to on a regular basis about this that would understand? I think you and your wife could benefit from that. Our church just started something called a Stephen Ministry, something like lay pastoral counselors trained to help people through difficult life events. I haven’t heard anyone’s experiences with it, but maybe a group like that could help?
 
NICKUSAF said:
I wish I knew. My wife wishes she knew. Our coach wishes she knew too.

Bottom line, we were using safe days. Heck, we were only intimate 1, maybe 2 days in a good month… we were scared to death of getting pregnant again. Here we are… gifted by God for the sixth time trying to use NFP to control our own lives.
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Been there, done that, got the stretch marks to prove it. Our physician (upon studying the evidence provided 😃 ) basically said she didn’t understand how I could have gotten pregnant that last time either (#5 I was so sleep deprived from #4 that I could have miscalculated but in retrospect I doubt it). She did mention she’d heard stories from other OB’s about “super fertility” but thought they were exaggerating.

Anyway as to your questions, I don’t feel qualified to answer, but I will say that it’s best to handle each day as it comes. I know exactly what you’re talking about when you speak of divided time and the need for intimacy in marriage. I mainly just wanted to let you know that from the super fertility issue to the concerns you’re raising, that you’re not alone though I don’t have a perfect answer.

Prayers and best wishes,
CJ
 
Viki63 said:
It has been about 20 years. We have 5 children total, but only two young ones were home for the first few years; the others are older. My husband is disabled and abstinence is our only choice.

To answer your questions, I think being intimate is irrelevant to raising children, we still show affection – children are pretty self centered and just want to be sure they’re not going to lose a parent to divorce.
We are good friends still. We go out to dinner, watch movies together, play cards, attend church.
i don’t think the relationship has changed so much that if intimacy were possible, it would be a problem.

Of course permanent abstinence is healthy – religious folks live this way all the time.
I offer it up to the Lord, who has much better things in store for us eventually, I’m convinced.

One thing I noticed is that it’s easier just to abstain, than to participate very rarely – that was frustrating.
I hope you can work something else out, but if abstinence is what you must do, I’m sure your marriage can survive. Respect and affection are key.
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Very good post. I especially appreciate your last paragraph.

My husband and I have abstained through deployments and also at other times as well. We have 9 children, stillborn twins, and a few miscarriages. We are both 37 and women in my family have had children well into their 40s and a few into their 50s. NFP does not work for us either. Don’t allow anyone to make you feel guilty or tell you you have done anything wrong. There are more of us out there that can not make NFP work than posters here or instructors want to admit. Female bodies often don’t work the way a method or a doctor explains it should. It really is a gift even though often in the past I really wanted to exchange this gift for something different.

Trust God. Allow Him to lead you. If He is calling you to abstain, He will provide the grace needed. If He is calling you towards more children, He will provide the grace needed. God will sustain you. His grace is sufficient.

I assure you that God has a plan for your family. I pray that you and your wife accept that plan whatever it may be. Don’t be afraid to have more children if that’s what the future holds. With every child comes the promise that God hasn’t given up on us down here yet. Don’t be afraid for your marriage if long term abstinence is what the future holds. Develop a prayer routine with your wife that includes prayers for your children and their future spouses, as well as prayers for your own marriage. St. Joseph, Mother Mary, and Jesus are wonderful intercessors for situations like yours (and honestly all family issues). Hold tight to them and allow them to work through you. Your family has my prayers. Please pray for mine as well.
 
truetofaith said:
Abstinence until the completely safe days of the month…Otherwise, use birth control & try to get a priest who gives you the O.K.
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Your advice is to jeopardize the soul of the couple and a priest. Are you willing to take responsibility before God for your advice?
What a horribly cruel answer.
 
bitterhope said:
Very good post. I especially appreciate your last paragraph.

My husband and I have abstained through deployments and also at other times as well. We have 9 children, stillborn twins, and a few miscarriages. We are both 37 and women in my family have had children well into their 40s and a few into their 50s. NFP does not work for us either. Don’t allow anyone to make you feel guilty or tell you you have done anything wrong. There are more of us out there that can not make NFP work than posters here or instructors want to admit. Female bodies often don’t work the way a method or a doctor explains it should. It really is a gift even though often in the past I really wanted to exchange this gift for something different.

Trust God. Allow Him to lead you. If He is calling you to abstain, He will provide the grace needed. If He is calling you towards more children, He will provide the grace needed. God will sustain you. His grace is sufficient.

I assure you that God has a plan for your family. I pray that you and your wife accept that plan whatever it may be. Don’t be afraid to have more children if that’s what the future holds. With every child comes the promise that God hasn’t given up on us down here yet. Don’t be afraid for your marriage if long term abstinence is what the future holds. Develop a prayer routine with your wife that includes prayers for your children and their future spouses, as well as prayers for your own marriage. St. Joseph, Mother Mary, and Jesus are wonderful intercessors for situations like yours (and honestly all family issues). Hold tight to them and allow them to work through you. Your family has my prayers. Please pray for mine as well.
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A truly wonderful post.
 
Rau said:
:confused: Sorry? What is it a priest could do?
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I know people who said the priest gave them a dispensation to use artificial birth control when they said in Confession they could no longer afford more kids or it was harmful to the wife’s health!
 
truetofaith said:
I know people who said the priest gave them a dispensation to use artificial birth control when they said in Confession they could no longer afford more kids or it was harmful to the wife’s health!
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It’s not impossible that a priest did that. It is impossible to do under catholic theology. And I’m sure you know that.
The CCC is clear about ABC being intrinsically evil. And this does not involve Zika.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
It can be real. But discussing that here would devolve the thread off topic. Because a guy with a large family for whom nfp is not working is the topic, not the misuse of nfp.
There are other threads to debate your issues.
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Oh the irony.

YOU grab onto one line - and in writing, do the opposite of your desire, multiple times!

What you do not see is this -

People with large families for which NFP is not working can and do build a guilt for the unmentionable term…

It was one line - why YOU chose to call it out, I do not know.

Why you don’t see that the 1 line was DOING what you desire, I do not know.

It’s just what is, now.
 
ffg said:
Oh the irony.

YOU grab onto one line - and in writing, do the opposite of your desire, multiple times!

What you do not see is this -

People with large families for which NFP is not working can and do build a guilt for the unmentionable term…

It was one line - why YOU chose to call it out, I do not know.

Why you don’t see that the 1 line was DOING what you desire, I do not know.
🤷
It’s just what is, now.
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If you wish to debate this on a seperate thread you can start one. Though I’m pretty sure it has been covered at length.
 
truetofaith said:
I know people who said the priest gave them a dispensation to use artificial birth control when they said in Confession they could no longer afford more kids or it was harmful to the wife’s health!
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Priests have no such capacity or faculty. They have no power to “dispense” a person from the moral law. A priest pretending to do so would have done something quite wrong:
 
The way I see it, if a priest loses faith and provides communion, the people receiving communion are still receiving the Body of Christ. In a similar manner, if a priest provides the faithful guidance based on the situation at hand, I believe our most loving and merciful God will have pitty on all involved. Unless you can prove otherwise, no need to reply.
 
NICKUSAF said:
The way I see it, if a priest loses faith and provides communion, the people receiving communion are still receiving the Body of Christ. In a similar manner, if a priest provides the faithful guidance based on the situation at hand, I believe our most loving and merciful God will have pitty on all involved. Unless you can prove otherwise, no need to reply.
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This is horrible.
 
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