Seeking Our Lady of Fatima info

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FrankLawrence

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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone can share with me any reliable website that gives the general details on Our Lady of Fatima. I’m not looking for in depth exhaustive research. I teach CCD. One of my students was asking about Our Lady of Fatima. I must admit, I know very little about it, because I have been leary of accepting it. Still, I’m always one to encourage my students’ interest on aspects of the faith. I want to be sure that the information I present is true to Church teachings, however.

So, can someone please provide a link that gives a general overview?

Also, can someone explain to me why the Church was willing to accept an apparition that provided new information that was not part of the original deposit of faith passed down through Apostolic Succession? (That is what I heard about Our Lady of Fatima. Any attempt to ask me to substantiate that would be counterproductive to what I am trying to find out.) Thank You
 
Thanks for the link. Looking at the web page fatima.org/essentials/facts/1917appar.asp I find certain things about the whole “Our Lady of Fatima” apparition to be rather unsettling.
Why did the Church approve of this as being a valid apparition? She seemed very bent on self-glorification(or Mary glorification), to the point of possible idolatry on the line, "Only She can help you", and claimed that the children's actions of intentionally inflicting pain onto themselves were pleasing to God. Also, whatever the third mystery was, likely was inconsistent with the original deposit of faith handed down through Apostolic Succession. Otherwise, why would the Vatican fail to release this information to the laity? Does this not imply that even the Vatican has its doubts as to the validity of Our Lady of Fatima?
 
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  Why did the Church approve of this as being a valid apparition?  She seemed very bent on self-glorification(or Mary glorification), to the point of possible idolatry on the line, "Only She can help you",
You know Frank, if I break my arm and there are a priest and a doctor nearby, I would run to the doctor for help. I am sure God doesn’t make this person a doctor for no reason.

When God gave us His Mother, He doesn’t make Her just for Her sake - it is for me and for all of us. If He can call Her His Mother, what else He couldn’t grant Her? – She is the Queen of Peace.
and claimed that the children’s actions of intentionally inflicting pain onto themselves were pleasing to God.
During those time, many Saints silently in their room whipping themselves.
Also, whatever the third mystery was, likely was inconsistent with the original deposit of faith handed down through Apostolic Succession.
How do you know it was inconsistent with the original deposit of faith if you are not sure what the third mystery was? 🙂

You might want to find out this mystery first.
 
From the Vatican - The Third Secret
Pope John Paul II authorised its release.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

Be assured that the Church does not approve these things haphazardly. There is intensive investigation of both the message and the seer(s). They take their time and do not pronounce right away. It usually takes years. I am more inclined to trust the Magisterium than my own judgement in this matter because I believe that those entrusted with this task are diligent and far more knowlegeable about Catholic doctrine than I am. If there is the slightest hint of something that contradicts the deposit of faith, it would be condemned. The Church is not in the habit of allowing her people to be led astray.

The children were offering their suffering in reparation for sin. Weren’t you ever taught to ‘offer it up’?

Here is a recent thread: Sufferings have no redeeming value if you want to discuss it.
 
You know Frank, if I break my arm and there are a priest and a doctor nearby, I would run to the doctor for help. I am sure God doesn’t make this person a doctor for no reason.

When God gave us His Mother, He doesn’t make Her just for Her sake - it is for me and for all of us. If He can call Her His Mother, what else He couldn’t grant Her? – She is the Queen of Peace.
That doesn’t answer the question as to why the word, “Only” was used in her statement. Does that not mean that “Only” excludes God?

Sure, the fire department is great for putting out fires, but Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego didn’t whip out their cell phones and call them. What does that have to do with anything, I don’t know, but my point is that regardless of what Mary has been blessed to do, it is all of God and through God, so why did she use the term, “Only” when such a term implies to the exclusion of everyone else, INCLUDING GOD? Was it a mere mistranslation or incomplete translation from the original language(I’m assuming Portuguese?)

The phrase, “Only She can help you,” certainly sounds to me like a denial of God. What am I missing?
 
The phrase, “Only She can help you,” certainly sounds to me like a denial of God. What am I missing?
Don’t just pick one word “only” to validate the Apparition.

Did it ever occur to you that many people when they pray to God for certain things, they didn’t get it until they asked for intercession of a certain saint?
 
Don’t just pick one word “only” to validate the Apparition.

Did it ever occur to you that many people when they pray to God for certain things, they didn’t get it until they asked for intercession of a certain saint?
That still does not answer the question. No saint can answer a prayer, ALONE, apart from God. It’s not that I’m trying to nitpick words, but that stands out as a major red flag with blaring sirens. Now, it is possible that I am misinterpreting what appears to be a blunt statement, but logic and facts are going to be needed to get me to change my views. In other words, “To the common reader, it would seems that Mary meant A, but when understood in context, in the culture, and in the original language, she actually meant B.” That is the type of argument that is going to change my views. Please note, I WANT to believe in the validity of Our Lady of Fatima, but I will not do so sloppily or haphazardly. I need to see it squaring with Catholic beliefs, on all accounts.
 
That still does not answer the question. No saint can answer a prayer, ALONE, apart from God.
Who says against that?

Sure, my answer doesn’t seem to give you a straight answer, does it?

If the Church has already given you the answer about the authenticity of the apparition, and you still have doubts, what good is my answer to you? 😉
  • you were seeking Fatima info, and I pointed you to the Intercession of Saints - sounds weird, doesn’t it? 🙂
Pick up a book on St. Augustine and read about why God grants the Saint’s intercession for us, then you will see some light why Mother says “Only she can help you”.
 
Who says against that?

Sure, my answer doesn’t seem to give you a straight answer, does it?

If the Church has already given you the answer about the authenticity of the apparition, and you still have doubts, what good is my answer to you? 😉
  • you were seeking Fatima info, and I pointed you to the Intercession of Saints - sounds weird, doesn’t it? 🙂
Pick up a book on St. Augustine and read about why God grants the Saint’s intercession for us, then you will see some light why Mother says “Only she can help you”.
I appreciate your help, but could you please cut to the chase, if you can somehow reconcile those words with Catholic theology. I teach CCD and want to be sure that the information I provide is sound, and that quote is a HUGE stumbling block to me accepting the apparition at Fatima as having genuinely been Mary. I am looking for a straight answer. Does the word “only,” as spoken at Fatima, not mean, “only” in the sense that the word means, “only,” in the conventional use of the word? Do you at least see the point I am getting at? Do you not see how I am perceiving the words, “Only She can help you,” as having an underlying implication that says, “God CAN’T help you,” and therefore furthermore suggesting that “Mary is more powerful than God, because she can help you and God can’t.” Can you not understand why this makes me want to strongly reject the validity of the apparition? Please do not give me double talk, but a straight answer. How can we possibly reconcile this with Church teaching?
 
I did understand your thinking and trying to steer you away from that thought for a moment and see deeper the meaning of the word “only”.

Here is some word from another site you might find it helpful to your question.

fatimacrusader.com/cr13/cr13pg04.asp

Read point 2 and go further down to the page to see how the point 2 is explained.
 
I would recommend that you get “Calls from the Message of Fatima” which is Sr. Lucia’s last book, published shortly before she died. She was asked the same questions over and over about the messages she received and wrote this book to try to answer them.

From the preface:
" It goes without saying that the tone of the entire book, evoking as it does the message of the Lady of Fatima, is predominantly Marian. However, the Marian spirituality that comes to the fore is entirely subordinate to Christ, from the very first pages where Jesus’ words in the Gospel of St. John are quoted; “I am the way, the truth and the life” (Jn 14:6) Mary is a living image of her Son. Lucia has thus coined a happy expression in speaking of “Mary’s commandment”, with reference to the words she spoke in Cana: “Do whatever He tells you” (Cf Jn 2, 1-10) Naturally, the seer of Fatima insists on the special nature of the new and renewed devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the pure heart of a Mother watching over this tragic century, which is also a providential time in the history of the Church, a time both of sorrow and of hope, a century entrusted to the heart of a Mother, in order to negotiate the transition to the new millennium with confidence and hope. A heart which helps us to understand the essential Marian nature of the Church."

"The devotion to Our Lady that is practised in Fatima is intimately linked with the life of the Church, the faith of the Church, the morality of the Church, fidelity to the Magisterium, the sacramental life of the Church, especially to the sacraments of Christan initiation and penance. Once again, Mary is coupled with the Church, an idea that we could perhaps express as follows: no Mary without the Church and no Church without Mary. One cannot conceive of a presence of Mary that does not point to Christ and his Church, nor can one conceive of an authentic ecclesiality which does not include the presence of the Mother of Christ and of the Church. Fatima is the synthesis of this indissoluble link between Mary and the Church, so dear to the Magisterium of Vatican II and to the post-Conciliar Popes such as Paul VI and John Paul II. This explains how it is that Lucia does not hesitate to speak of Mary as Mother and Mistress of the Apostles in the early Church.

The entire message of Fatima is a great call to holiness for the Church of our time."

P. Jesus Castellano Cervera ocd
Consultor of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith
16 July, 2000
(emphasis mine)

The events at Fatima and the messages Mary brought were instrumental in my conversion. They were a catalyst, so to speak, to my enquiring more deeply into the Church and to reforming my life and turning it over to Christ through his Blessed Mother. Coming from a completely secular background, I did not find myself led only to Mary and stop there. No, I was led through Mary to Jesus.

My personal take on “only she can help you” is that it is a reference to Mary’s position as Mediatrix of all Graces. I do not see it as negating the role of Jesus or making Him subordinate in any way. The capitalisation is something done by the editor.
from the CCC
969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”
As I said before, I trust those who investigated Fatima, Sr. Lucia and the messages. They have looked into these matters with due diligence and found nothing that is contrary to the deposit of faith. I hope this helps.

ps - I’ve had some trouble understanding redemptive suffering of the ‘do it to yourself’ type rather than just offering what comes our way too. I suppose you also have to take into account their youth and their culture. Francisco, 9 years old, in particular, was told to back off on his self-inflicted suffering. Remember, they were given a vision of hell and were moved to do as much as they could to prevent people from going there. Both Francisco and Jacinta have been Beatified so they must have done something right.
Here’s another link:
ewtn.com/fatima/children/index.htm
 
I would take “only she can help you” as meaning God has chosen not to act without our Lady’s intercession there. I don’t see where or how this diminishes God in any way.

Though it would be easier to tell if I knew the exact context 😛
 
I thank those of you who replied. I started a similar topic in the main apologetics page, too. Someone there suggested that “Only She could help you,” was hyperbole, and that seems to make the most sense to me.

I spoke to my priest about my difficulties with accepting Our Lady of Lourdes and Our Lady of Fatima, and he told me not to get worked up over issues that are not essential to the faith. I am going to take his advice and stop my research on this issue, since it has caused me more problems than it has solved.

Once again, I thank you all for your help.
 
I thank those of you who replied. I started a similar topic in the main apologetics page, too. Someone there suggested that “Only She could help you,” was hyperbole, and that seems to make the most sense to me.

I spoke to my priest about my difficulties with accepting Our Lady of Lourdes and Our Lady of Fatima, and he told me not to get worked up over issues that are not essential to the faith. I am going to take his advice and stop my research on this issue, since it has caused me more problems than it has solved.

Once again, I thank you all for your help.
My girlfriend thought Virgin Mary was God at the time she wasn’t baptized. She learned to pray the Rosary by reading the pamphlet on how to pray it.

God knows how to take care of those who seek Him, and we just need to trust Him more on this.
 
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