Seeking Proper Response (1John 5:17. "Not all sin is deadly.")

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How does one reply to this:

Let’s see what John was saying.
John was saying that all sin is unrightous. Sin was declared forgiven on the cross.
There is a sin that can never be forgiven.
This eternal sin is unbelief.
Can one fail in unbelief??? Not thru sin!!
Can one loose salvation?? Only thru rejecting Christ!!
This is the age old question which I think is more cloudy than others believe.
If you are Reformed you would say impossible.
If you are a free willer–most would say no.
The question is, really, IF it is not possible why in the world is it ever brought up in scripture??
If it is brought up in scripture there must be something too it.
Let us drop the denominational issues and look at scripture. Don’t bury your head under the cloak of dogma. This unforgiveable sin is in the open–discussed–warned of.
IT is possible to Apostocize.

The subject was 1John 5:17. “Not all sin is deadly.”

Thanks all!
 
I like how Gill says it

John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

1 John 5:17

""All unrighteousness is sin?
All unrighteousness against God or man is a sin against the law of God, and the wrath of God is revealed against it, and it is deserving of death; yet all unrighteousness is not unto death, as the sins of David, which were unrighteousness both to God and man, and yet they were put away, and he died not; Peter sinned very foully, and did great injustice to his dear Lord, and yet his sin was not unto death; he had repentance unto life given him, and a fresh application of pardoning grace:

and there is a sin not unto death;
this is added for the relief of weak believers, who hearing of a sin unto death, not to be prayed for, might fear that theirs were of that kind, whereas none of them are; for though they are guilty of many unrighteousnesses, yet God is merciful to them and forgives, (Hebrews 8:12) , and so they are not unto death. “”

from Gills verse 16 if still unclear

""There is a sin unto death;
which is not only deserving of death, as every other sin is, but which certainly and inevitably issues in death in all that commit it, without exception; and that is the sin against the Holy Ghost, which is neither forgiven in this world nor in that to come, and therefore must be unto death; it is a sinning wilfully, not in a practical, but doctrinal way, after a man has received the knowledge of the truth; it is a wilful denial of the truth of the Gospel, particularly that peace, pardon, righteousness, eternal life, and salvation, are by Jesus Christ, contrary to the light of his mind, and this joined with malice and obstinacy; so that there is no more or other sacrifice for such a sin; there is nothing but a fearful looking for of wrath and fury to fall on such opposers of the way of life; and as the presumptuous sinners under Moses’s law died without mercy, so must these despiteful ones under the Gospel; see (Matthew 12:31,32) (Hebrews 10:26-29) . Some think there is an allusion to one of the kinds of excommunication among the Jews, called “shammatha”, the etymology of which, according to some Jewish writers, is (htym Mv) , “there is death” F20.

I do not say that he shall pray for it;
the apostle does not expressly forbid to pray for the forgiveness of this sin, yet what he says amounts unto it; he gives no encouragement to it, or any hopes of succeeding, but rather the reverse; and indeed where this sin is known, or can be known, it is not to be prayed for, because it is irremissible; but as it is a most difficult point to know when a man has sinned it, the apostle expresses himself with great caution. “”
 
the unforgivable sin is any sin commited by a person who is unable to ask for forgiveness because they have given up on God, and it is unforgivable only because the person is unable to sincerly confess it. It is a hardened heart.
the key thing if a person cannot repent because thier mind and and heart is hardened to God - then it is unforgivable.
 
Not all sin is deadly, mortal. As Catholics we know that there are degrees of sin, venial and mortal. The venial sin does not separate us from God and take away His Grace, we can erase it from our soul by the penitential rite at Mass, and taking communion. (Although a good spiritual adviser will recommend confession even for venial sins as a way of obtaining Grace and avoid repeating them). Mortal sin kill Grace in our soul and separates us from God, and should we die in this state, our soul would be in great jeopardy, if not lost.
Pax.
 
lenseekstruth said:
Not all sin is deadly, mortal. As Catholics we know that there are degrees of sin, venial and mortal. The venial sin does not separate us from God and take away His Grace, we can erase it from our soul by the penitential rite at Mass, and taking communion. (Although a good spiritual adviser will recommend confession even for venial sins as a way of obtaining Grace and avoid repeating them). Mortal sin kill Grace in our soul and separates us from God, and should we die in this state, our soul would be in great jeopardy, if not lost.
Pax.
Click to expand...
What lenseekstruth is saying is correct. I believe that the way the original poster is interpreting this scripture is not what John meant. All sin can be forgiven by God and all sin is forgiven by God if we allow God to forgive us our sin. The only sin that is unforgivable is the sin we do not ask God to forgive with humble and contrite hearts. That is truly the sin against the Holy Spirit that is discussed in the Gospels. So as Catholics we interpret this passage as lenseekstruth wrote in his/her post which was very good by the way.
 
ERose said:
What lenseekstruth is saying is correct. I believe that the way the original poster is interpreting this scripture is not what John meant. All sin can be forgiven by God and all sin is forgiven by God if we allow God to forgive us our sin. The only sin that is unforgivable is the sin we do not ask God to forgive with humble and contrite hearts. That is truly the sin against the Holy Spirit that is discussed in the Gospels. So as Catholics we interpret this passage as lenseekstruth wrote in his/her post which was very good by the way.
Click to expand...
👍
Our sins are revealed to us through the work of the Holy Spirit.

(John 16:8 "and when He comes, He will convince the world concerning sin,…").

If we reject/deny the sinfulness of our actions, we of course never then repent of them and ask for forgiveness. So we die in that state.

Nita
 
ERose said:
What lenseekstruth is saying is correct. I believe that the way the original poster is interpreting this scripture is not what John meant. All sin can be forgiven by God and all sin is forgiven by God if we allow God to forgive us our sin. The only sin that is unforgivable is the sin we do not ask God to forgive with humble and contrite hearts. That is truly the sin against the Holy Spirit that is discussed in the Gospels. So as Catholics we interpret this passage as lenseekstruth wrote in his/her post which was very good by the way.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but the credit goes to the apologists at EWTN. By the way, it is she.
 
Jaguar said:
How does one reply to this:

Let’s see what John was saying.
John was saying that all sin is unrightous. Sin was declared forgiven on the cross.
There is a sin that can never be forgiven.
This eternal sin is unbelief.
Can one fail in unbelief??? Not thru sin!!
Can one loose salvation?? Only thru rejecting Christ!!
This is the age old question which I think is more cloudy than others believe.
If you are Reformed you would say impossible.
If you are a free willer–most would say no.
The question is, really, IF it is not possible why in the world is it ever brought up in scripture??
If it is brought up in scripture there must be something too it.
Let us drop the denominational issues and look at scripture. Don’t bury your head under the cloak of dogma. This unforgiveable sin is in the open–discussed–warned of.
IT is possible to Apostocize.

The subject was 1John 5:17. “Not all sin is deadly.”

Thanks all!
Click to expand...
Sounds like a Protestant sermon.

Since most Protestants reject the concept of mortal vs venial sin, the person who gave this “talk” seems to subtly shift from discussing the difference between “deadly” (mortal) sin & non deadly (venial) sin to discussing the unforgivable sin of “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

But then, even if he was changing the subject of the talk from mortal sin to the unforgivable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is not simply unbelief, but a rejection of the Lord, or His ability (or willingness) to forgive us. The sin of rejection of the Lord is unforgivable by its very nature.

Chris
 
Jaguar said:
Let’s see what John was saying.
John was saying that all sin is unrighteous. Sin was declared forgiven on the cross.
There is a sin that can never be forgiven.
This eternal sin is unbelief.
Can one fail in unbelief??? Not thru sin!!
Can one lose salvation?? Only thru rejecting Christ!!
This is the age old question which I think is more cloudy than others believe.
…
This unforgiveable sin is in the open–discussed–warned of.
IT is possible to Apostocize.
Click to expand...
Firstly, we must acknowledge that apostasy is a sin “unto death”. However, the scope of this passage is wider than that.
 
Jaguar said:
How does one reply to this:

Let’s see what John was saying.
John was saying that all sin is unrightous. Sin was declared forgiven on the cross.
There is a sin that can never be forgiven.
This eternal sin is unbelief.
Can one fail in unbelief??? Not thru sin!!
Can one loose salvation?? Only thru rejecting Christ!!
This is the age old question which I think is more cloudy than others believe.
If you are Reformed you would say impossible.
If you are a free willer–most would say no.
The question is, really, IF it is not possible why in the world is it ever brought up in scripture??
If it is brought up in scripture there must be something too it.
Let us drop the denominational issues and look at scripture. Don’t bury your head under the cloak of dogma. This unforgiveable sin is in the open–discussed–warned of.
IT is possible to Apostocize.

The subject was 1John 5:17. “Not all sin is deadly.”

Thanks all!
Click to expand...
"Sin was declared forgiven on the cross " I think that there is a better way to say this, to me it seems to be referring to “once saved, always saved” Jesus died for us on the cross SO that sin MAY BE FORGIVEN.

One can loose salvation by rejecting Christ OR his forgiveness.
If the forgiveness of sin is obtained through the “asking for forgiveness”, how can you be forgiven if you either do not ask, or refuse to even belief in Christ who is THE FORGIVER? I see “rejection of the Holy Spirit” as rejection of Christ, rejection of forgiveness, and even the refusal to acknowledge sin itself; after all if we do not acknowledge our sins, how can we be repentant or even ask for forgiveness?
“Can one loose salvation?” YESSS!!
And that is why it’s brought up in scriptures over and over, especially by Paul. After all, why should we have “to work out our salvation in fear and trembling” if there were no possibility of loosing it? Why would he even have to write all his letters continually exhorting them to run the good race… they are baptized, they have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior…why? Because they can loose their salvation!! Frankly I still don’t quite get the question, did I help or made it worst?
Pax
 
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