Sees and Churches the Apostles Founded

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You could add the Antiochian Church to Peter, since he was also Bishop there.
 
Hmm. No St. Mark. Maybe the fate of his relics (stolen by Venetian merchants in the 9th century) is a little bit embarrassing for RC apologists…

(To be fair, Rome gave the COC at least a little bit of them back in the time of HH Pope Kyrillos VI, and the COC believes that the head of the apostle is in his church in Alexandria, and other parts in the Cathedral in Cairo.)
 
dzheremi said:
Hmm. No St. Mark. Maybe the fate of his relics (stolen by Venetian merchants in the 9th century) is a little bit embarrassing for RC apologists…

(To be fair, Rome gave the COC at least a little bit of them back in the time of HH Pope Kyrillos VI, and the COC believes that the head of the apostle is in his church in Alexandria, and other parts in the Cathedral in Cairo.)
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Mark wasn’t one of the twelve.
 
True enough. He was one of the 70. I guess you’ve cut the list off somewhere, but I guess I assumed that those churches of the Pentarchy would all be mentioned, as those are what most people think of first when they think “Apostolic churches”. Though it seems that the list and the thread title don’t even match. Meh.

For the record, OP:

Sts. Peter and Paul are associated with the founding of the Church in Rome
St. Peter alone with the founding of the Church in Antioch
St. Andrew with the Church in Constantinople
Sts. Peter and James with the Church in Jerusalem
(St. Mark with the Church in Alexandria, but that doesn’t count, even though Nicaea said it did :p)
Sts. Thomas and Bartholomew with the Church in Mesopotamia (Seleucia-Ctesiphon)
Sts. Thaddeus and Bartholomew with the Church in Armenia
St. John with the Church in Ephesus

A bunch of churches in Greece (Thessaloniki, Philippi, Corinth, etc.) claim apostolic foundations via St. Paul, but I guess if Alexandria doesn’t count, they shouldn’t either. St. Paul is also said to have founded the Church in Malta. (Maybe you could make a note of that since Malta is one of the most overwhelmingly Catholic countries in the world…something like 96%, with almost that much regular Mass attendance!)
 
dzheremi said:
True enough. He was one of the 70. I guess you’ve cut the list off somewhere, but I guess I assumed that those churches of the Pentarchy would all be mentioned, as those are what most people think of first when they think “Apostolic churches”. Though it seems that the list and the thread title don’t even match. Meh.

For the record, OP:

Sts. Peter and Paul are associated with the founding of the Church in Rome
St. Peter alone with the founding of the Church in Antioch
St. Andrew with the Church in Constantinople
Sts. Peter and James with the Church in Jerusalem
(St. Mark with the Church in Alexandria, but that doesn’t count, even though Nicaea said it did :p)
Sts. Thomas and Bartholomew with the Church in Mesopotamia (Seleucia-Ctesiphon)
Sts. Thaddeus and Bartholomew with the Church in Armenia
St. John with the Church in Ephesus

A bunch of churches in Greece (Thessaloniki, Philippi, Corinth, etc.) claim apostolic foundations via St. Paul, but I guess if Alexandria doesn’t count, they shouldn’t either. St. Paul is also said to have founded the Church in Malta. (Maybe you could make a note of that since Malta is one of the most overwhelmingly Catholic countries in the world…something like 96%, with almost that much regular Mass attendance!)
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Maybe a different chart is needed. I was only thinking of adding a column to Scott Hahn’s. I can make a different one.
 
dzheremi said:
True enough. He was one of the 70. I guess you’ve cut the list off somewhere, but I guess I assumed that those churches of the Pentarchy would all be mentioned, as those are what most people think of first when they think “Apostolic churches”. Though it seems that the list and the thread title don’t even match. Meh.

For the record, OP:

Sts. Peter and Paul are associated with the founding of the Church in Rome
St. Peter alone with the founding of the Church in Antioch
St. Andrew with the Church in Constantinople
Sts. Peter and James with the Church in Jerusalem
(St. Mark with the Church in Alexandria, but that doesn’t count, even though Nicaea said it did :p)
Sts. Thomas and Bartholomew with the Church in Mesopotamia (Seleucia-Ctesiphon)
Sts. Thaddeus and Bartholomew with the Church in Armenia
St. John with the Church in Ephesus

A bunch of churches in Greece (Thessaloniki, Philippi, Corinth, etc.) claim apostolic foundations via St. Paul, but I guess if Alexandria doesn’t count, they shouldn’t either. St. Paul is also said to have founded the Church in Malta. (Maybe you could make a note of that since Malta is one of the most overwhelmingly Catholic countries in the world…something like 96%, with almost that much regular Mass attendance!)
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Amen to your comments about St. Mark and the Holy See of Alexandria! St. Mark is called an Apostle (and an evangelist) by the Holy Tradition of Holy Alexandrian Christianity, as I’m sure you well know! The Apostle Mark arrived in Alexandria in the Year 38 AD which was the year of the Samaritan Jubilee at the young age of only 8 years old. He was crowned there in Alexandria by a multitude of Jewish believers as “the Apostle”, which title meant a bit more than it does today. Perhaps you know this too!

The chart lists the “Apostle Paul”, which was not one of the special 12 disciples, why not list Mark too? In fact, if the maker of the chart were willing to consider an alternative tradition, consider the possibility that the Apostle Mark was the same person as the Apostle Paul! But alas, this alternative tradition goes contrary to the Book of Acts. Epiphanius wrote about another Book of Acts that was written before the one in the Bible now, but no copy has survived - I’d like to see what it had to say about the Apostle Mark, if anything.

There’s also a Coptic tradition (that you may know - being Coptic yourself) that says that the Apostle Mark’s “Jewish” name was John! John of the 12 is depicted, in accord with certain traditions, as very young, his icon is painted without a beard. Makes you think that maybe he might have been one of the 12 after all! But with competing traditions which one do you want to believe?

In any event I wish to put in my two bits here only because it is hard for me to not take an opportunity to praise that great Apostle Mark who founded that great Christian See of Alexandria! Amen!
 
Press Release About The Abolition Of The Title

“Patriarch of the West” from The 2006 Pontifical Yearbook

Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity

…
Without presuming to consider the complex historical question of the title of patriarch in all its aspects, it can be said from the historical point of view that the ancient patriarchs of the East, established by the Councils of Constantinople (381) and Chalcedon (451), were related to a fairly clearly defined territory, where the territory of the See of the Bishop of Rome remained vague. In the East, under the ecclesiastical imperial system of Justinian (527-565), in addition to the four Eastern Patriarchs (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), the Pope was included as the Patriarch of the West. Conversely, Rome favors the idea of the three Petrine episcopal sees: Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Without using the title “Patriarch of the West,” the Fourth Council of Constantinople (869-70), the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) and the Council of Florence (1439), listed the Pope as the first of the then five Patriarchs.
…

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/sub-index/index_general-docs.htm
 
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